Wood whistles

[Sirchronique]

As far as I can make out, they both taper for the entirety of their main body sections. This means that the Susato tapers for 22 cm and the Morneaux for 20 cm.

So, definitely in the Mild Taper area.

But the difficulty is that it's possible they both taper in the headjoint section, and I'm not really sure how you'd measure that.

Probably unlikely. And tricky to measure without T-Gauges.

OK, so it seems that we have at least five categories of taper. Using the Rise over Length approach (Eg a 1mm increase in Diameter over 200mm is a taper of 1 in 200, we see:

Cylindrical (No taper, so infinite)
Hardly tapered, Susato, 338
Mild Tapers, Thornton (Martin), 159; Carbony, 151; Morneaux, 200.
Bold part-length tapers, some with flares, 40 to 46
Bold full length tapers, 35 to 37

(Keep in mind with this measure, the larger the number, the more gentle the taper. And that my data is pretty rough, so don't bank on it!)

It's a big field!

I often wonder why no one makes any conical bore whistles - i.e., whistles that start narrow and get wider. I'd think that would increase volume, wouldn't it?

There are makers who do make it flare out and widen a tad just at the bell end, to improve the bell note. You have to look closely to see it in some cases, but it is done. I think Swayne low whistles are one example.

[Tunborough]

I often wonder why no one makes any conical bore whistles - i.e., whistles that start narrow and get wider. I'd think that would increase volume, wouldn't it?

It would seriously throw off the octave tuning. Woodwind bores generally taper smaller toward the bottom or toward the top to bring the octave tuning in line, sharpening the upper octave a tad without having to push as hard. If the whistle bore expanded toward the bottom, you'd end up with a very flat upper octave.

Reed instruments, be they cane reeds or lip reeds (brass instruments), are a different kettle of fish. Because they have a high-pressure, low-flow point at the blown end, and a low-pressure, high-flow point at the bottom end, a cylindrical bore reed will naturally overblow at the 12th instead of the octave (3 times the frequency instead of 2 times). That's what a clarinet does. As you expand the bottom end to a conical bore the frequency of the second register gets lower. If you get the expanding taper on the cone just right, the instrument overblows at the octave. That's what happens with an oboe or uilleann pipe chanter.

[Cyberknight]

I often wonder why no one makes any conical bore whistles - i.e., whistles that start narrow and get wider. I'd think that would increase volume, wouldn't it?

It would seriously throw off the octave tuning. Woodwind bores generally taper smaller toward the bottom or toward the top to bring the octave tuning in line, sharpening the upper octave a tad without having to push as hard. If the whistle bore expanded toward the bottom, you'd end up with a very flat upper octave.

Reed instruments, be they cane reeds or lip reeds (brass instruments), are a different kettle of fish. Because they have a high-pressure, low-flow point at the blown end, and a low-pressure, high-flow point at the bottom end, a cylindrical bore reed will naturally overblow at the 12th instead of the octave (3 times the frequency instead of 2 times). That's what a clarinet does. As you expand the bottom end to a conical bore the frequency of the second register gets lower. If you get the expanding taper on the cone just right, the instrument overblows at the octave. That's what happens with an oboe or uilleann pipe chanter.

Fascinating! I never knew all this. Makes perfect sense. I had always wondered why it is that clarinets have a second register that's a 12th up instead of an octave, and now I know.

The one thing that doesn't seem to make much sense is why brass instruments don't experience this same phenomenon. Many of them have cylindrical bores (the trumpet, for instance), yet they still have the exact registers you'd expect (octave up, fifth up, fourth up, third up, etc.). The trumpet doesn't randomly jump up a twelfth just because it has a cylindrical bore. I wonder what the explanation is for this.

[Tunborough]

The one thing that doesn't seem to make much sense is why brass instruments don't experience this same phenomenon. Many of them have cylindrical bores (the trumpet, for instance), yet they still have the exact registers you'd expect (octave up, fifth up, fourth up, third up, etc.). The trumpet doesn't randomly jump up a twelfth just because it has a cylindrical bore. I wonder what the explanation is for this.

The trumpet bore is so long and so narrow that it doesn't play in what would be its first register. The lowest note you can play on a trumpet is already overblowing into an upper register. (I can't remember which one.)

[Cyberknight]

The one thing that doesn't seem to make much sense is why brass instruments don't experience this same phenomenon. Many of them have cylindrical bores (the trumpet, for instance), yet they still have the exact registers you'd expect (octave up, fifth up, fourth up, third up, etc.). The trumpet doesn't randomly jump up a twelfth just because it has a cylindrical bore. I wonder what the explanation is for this.

The trumpet bore is so long and so narrow that it doesn't play in what would be its first register. The lowest note you can play on a trumpet is already overblowing into an upper register. (I can't remember which one.)

Ah, that makes sense! Yeah, I believe you're playing in the second register when you play a low B flat, come to think of it. There's a nasty pedal tone below that (no one ever plays it), and it's probably just about a 12th down.

EDIT: Just tested it, and yep! You can most easily play a low F sharp in that pedal register, which is exactly a 12th below B flat. Fascinating!

[Terry McGee]

So, Tunborough and others, I'd be interested in your take on what we seem to be seeing so far in the way of tapers:
Cylindrical (No taper, so infinite)
Hardly tapered, Susato, 338
Mild Tapers, Thornton (Martin), 159; Carbony, 151; Morneaux, 200.
Bold part-length tapers, some with flares, 40 to 46
Bold full length tapers, 35 to 37

We all have experience with Cylindrical. Perhaps it would be good though to assemble an agreed list of inadequacies we are trying to do something about? And do we have to differentiate between Thin-walled Cylindrical, eg Generation, and Thicker-walled Cylindrical, eg wooden whistles? Do Thicker-walled Cylindrical whistles tend flat at the top of the 2nd octave?

Do we think that the Susato's "Hardly Tapered" bore is tapered enough to achieve anything over Cylindrical? I wondered if that taper is more to do with getting it out of a mold than acoustically mandated?

People have commented positively on the whistles in the Mild Taper group. Instinctively I would hope that a Mild Taper should be enough to do some good, given that a) Cylindrical are not a disaster, and b) Bold Tapers seem to me to be overkill.

Bold Part-Length Tapers seem to me to be harking towards Conical Piccolo design, but do we need to go that far? I'm thinking that with the whistle we have to blow harder just to get into the second octave, so does Piccolo level tuning correction seem perhaps less necessary?

Note also the very big step between the Bold Tapers around 1 in 40, and the Mild Tapers, between 1 in 150 to 1 in 200. Is this untravelled territory?

And Bold Full Length tapers (the Clarkes) seems to me to be missing the point. Don't we need the contrast between a cylindrical section and a tapered section to realise any compensation? And tapering to such a small end diameter is bound to make the low notes weak? Again, are we seeing the result of a manufacturing process, rather than intentional acoustic design?

If, from what I've written above you detect some rising sense of bewilderment, then you have to congratulate me at least on my writing skills....