Brass body or Nickel ?

[Loren]

If nickel-plated brass sounds more like nickel than brass that suggests surface finish makes most or all of the difference.

4 major factors come into play with regards to volume and brightness of tone with regards to how the body plays a part: Bore surface smoothness, bore surface hardness, density of the tube material, and thickness is of the tube material.

The vibrating air column inside the body tube interacts with that tube. The more of the vibrational energy the tube absorbs from the vibrating air column, the lower the volume and less bright the tone. Conversely, the more reflective the tube, the brighter and louder the result.

All other things being equal, brass alone is less reflective than nickel plated brass: The plating adds mass to the tube, and stiffens it, both of which cause the vibrating air inside the tube to be less able to transfer vibrational energy to the tube.

Unfortunately, I don't think it's feasible to make a maple flute with a blackwood veneer lining to test that out.

We already have plenty of metal lined, half-lined, and unlined headjoints to test this out, and have done so, as stated in a previous post.

Another consideration: some people are allergic to nickel. Not as common as wood allergies, perhaps, but it exists.

Excellent point.

[RoberTunes]

For me, the choice lies in what key the whistle is in, and what model you're dealing with, all in balance with what tone you prefer.
My preference is for aluminum for all alto and low keys, but up in soprano where richness of tone is harder to come by, brass, wood or the quality plastics may be desired,
with a bore size chosen that suits rich tone production from each key. That is dependent also on the influence on tone that the mouthpiece area already has.

From there, be sure to keep the inside of the airway and tube totally clean and unscratched. I don't see enough chat about
keeping the inside of the tube as clean and smooth as possible. Maybe in 2022.
As for nickel, I'd advise against it, unless the name of your band is "The Loopy Hazmats". I once borrowed a nickel flute for a while and it seemed to
discolor a couple of my fingers and had an aroma like an automotive cleaning chemical. I was keeping it cleaned and wiped daily.
Silver plated or solid silver flutes gave off nothing like that.
I wouldn't select nickel for anything put in the mouth or if it's going to be wet and on the fingers for some time.
A nickel plated whistle tube with a Delrin, brass or aluminum mouthpiece would seem reasonable.

[Nanohedron]

I don't recall any handling problem with nickel-plated Gens, but maybe I have gecko fingers. That said, I lean toward brass when there's a choice, but it's not a deal breaker; above anything else, I unsystematically go by how a whistle's overall tone grabs me, so long as it plays well. My last working whistle collection was a real hodgepodge of brass, nickel and plastic.

[Narzog]

I'm surprised to see so many issues with Nickel plating. I've actually considered learning to nickel plate, to make super tryhard DIY's. I've always thought of nickel plated as just the nicer step up over normal aluminum.

[Nanohedron]

I'm surprised to see so many issues with Nickel plating.

The first thing to remember is that nickel is toxic enough for mention to be made of the fact. And there are a range of sensitivities people have to it, and the type of contact and duration factor in as well. I'm no expert, but I'm guessing that alloys will make some difference, too. A good question would be, are nickel-plated whistles clad in pure nickel, or some kind of alloy of it? One well-known family of nickel alloys, nickel silver (which has no actual silver in it), is found in a variety of applications including instrument keywork. I never had much reaction if any to nickel silver flute keys, nor to nickel-plated whistles, yet I have a vintage eyeglass case (marked "German Silver") that makes my skin tingle if I handle it too long. But its color isn't so silvery as it is more like very pale brass, so nickel silver isn't just one alloy recipe, but a spectrum, and maybe there's chemistry afoot because of it.

[Mr.Gumby]

Nickel silver is a brass/nickel alloy. Perhaps other elements are part of the mix, I can't remember the details. Toxicity may not be that much of an issue: cutlery made from electro plated nickel silver (EPNS) is common enough.

EPNS spoons etc from second hand shops have been recycled into flute and regulator keys.

[Narzog]

I wonder if Burkes, and Tilbury whistles are plated with nickel silver? Burkes have a Delrin mouthpiece anyway. Tilbury do as well, but didnt originally.

Although while talking about toxicity, brass contains lead usually. Its super small amounts, but is still sketchy. And nickel silver is made of brass, so does it also contain lead? Lead content makes me worry about things like the Killarney mouthpiece, which is partially brass. I highly doubt its enough to have any bad effect. But its just enough to exist for me to think about it haha.

[trill]

4 major factors come into play with regards to volume and brightness of tone with regards to how the body plays a part: Bore surface smoothness, bore surface hardness, density of the tube material, and thickness is of the tube material.

I'll a another: the elastic modulus (Young's) of the tube material. That will factor into the natural modes of the tube.

[Loren]

Wait, hold up…..in a post earlier in this thread you wrote:

Does the type material brass/nickel effect the sound of a pennywhistle . . .

In a nutshell, I don't think so.

And now:

4 major factors come into play with regards to volume and brightness of tone with regards to how the body plays a part: Bore surface smoothness, bore surface hardness, density of the tube material, and thickness is of the tube material.

I'll a another: the elastic modulus (Young's) of the tube material. That will factor into the natural modes of the tube.

You can’t have it both ways and say material doesn’t make a difference and then say the elastic modulus of a given tube material will be a major factor in sound production. I mean you CAN say both of those things obviously, because you have done, but they are completely contradictory. So which is it?

For my part I’ve already covered EM, as it’s rolled into the factors of tube density, tube thickness (and therefore it’s rigidity), and bore surface hardness. Elastic modulus is just a physics term describing a particular characteristic of a material in scientific terms. I’m simply speaking in practical terms, from the instrument maker’s perspective. Which is to say, the instrument maker doesn’t go about creating a brighter or mellower sounding instrument by changing the elastic modulus of the tube, per se.

[pancelticpiper]

Actually the alloy often called Nickel Silver, which in the old days was called German Silver, and which I've heard Spanish speakers call Alpacca, is most fittingly called Cupro-Nickel as it is an alloy of Copper, Nickel, and Zinc.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickel_silver

It was by far the most common metal from around the mid-19th century up to the mid-20th century for Highland bagpipe, wooden flute, clarinet, etc fittings, as well as Scottish military badges, buckles, and other fittings.

Flute, E-flat, Boosey & Co, c1880, Ebonite and solid German Silver



Highland pipes c1905 with solid German Silver fittings

[Loren]

Actually the alloy often called Nickel Silver, which in the old days was called German Silver, and which I've heard Spanish speakers call Alpacca, is most fittingly called Cupro-Nickel

Technically, I’m not certain this is correct, as the following would seem to indicate that Cupro-Nickel and German Silver Nickel are significantly different types of alloys from one another.

https://www.quora.com/What-is-CuproNick ... es?share=1

[Average Whistler]

All this talk about toxicity has got me worried about the uranium whistle I ordered from the Ukraine. Sure, it's a bit heavy, but it's got a wonderful mellow sound and it's very easy to play in the dark.

[RoberTunes]

All this talk about toxicity has got me worried about the uranium whistle I ordered from the Ukraine. Sure, it's a bit heavy, but it's got a wonderful mellow sound and it's very easy to play in the dark.

Don't worry about it. All whistle makers within 1000 miles of Chernobyl (and makers of anything within 750 miles of Fukushima) give all their whistles a 1,500,000 year warranty on everything but the whistle's weight. But keep it clean, because the plutonium mouthpieces react with saliva and finger oils to produce dripping inorganic black sludge where the lips, gums, teeth and fingers used to be, and that clogs up the tube and ruins intonation. You're right, the tone is great. We need to see more of the great YouTube whistle reviewers demonstrate them. So far, nada.

[RoberTunes]

I wonder if Burkes, and Tilbury whistles are plated with nickel silver? Burkes have a Delrin mouthpiece anyway. Tilbury do as well, but didnt originally.

Although while talking about toxicity, brass contains lead usually. Its super small amounts, but is still sketchy. And nickel silver is made of brass, so does it also contain lead? Lead content makes me worry about things like the Killarney mouthpiece, which is partially brass. I highly doubt its enough to have any bad effect. But its just enough to exist for me to think about it haha.

Nobody is going to get lead poisoning from contact with brass whistles. I wonder, what percentage of people worried about a few atoms of lead in brass, would also worry about the MILLIONS of molecules of agrochemical and industrial processing toxins in every bite of their fast food that they buy daily?

[Nanohedron]

[Who] would also worry about the MILLIONS of molecules of agrochemical and industrial processing toxins in every bite of their fast food that they buy daily?

I consider it embalming myself before the fact.