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PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2021 3:48 pm 
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A question for any builders on here.

Just finishing my very first whistle build. I went for an Alto A build.

I used 1/2" PVC from Home Depot for the body and a piece of 3/4" PVC for the mouthpiece. Poplar dowel for the fipple block.

The intonation is pretty good, but because the wall thickness of of the PVC is about .120" (3mm), the airway is really deep and it takes a tone of air. The instructions I followed said it should be about 1.5mm (.06").

I've used some strips of duct tape to make the airway shallower, which has made it much easier to play. But I suspect that won't be a good long term solution.

So a question to the builders out there:

Is there PVC out there that isn't as thick? I looked at the grey electrical conduit stuff and it's the same thickness.

Is shimming like what I've done standard for home builds? If so what do you use other than duct tape?

Any and all input would be most appreciated.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2021 4:25 pm 
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Nate74 wrote:
A question for any builders on here.

Just finishing my very first whistle build. I went for an Alto A build.

I used 1/2" PVC from Home Depot for the body and a piece of 3/4" PVC for the mouthpiece. Poplar dowel for the fipple block.

The intonation is pretty good, but because the wall thickness of of the PVC is about .120" (3mm), the airway is really deep and it takes a tone of air. The instructions I followed said it should be about 1.5mm (.06").

I've used some strips of duct tape to make the airway shallower, which has made it much easier to play. But I suspect that won't be a good long term solution.

So a question to the builders out there:

Is there PVC out there that isn't as thick? I looked at the grey electrical conduit stuff and it's the same thickness.

Is shimming like what I've done standard for home builds? If so what do you use other than duct tape?

Any and all input would be most appreciated.

Image

Image

Image


Pictures not showing up here


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2021 5:27 pm 
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Nate74 wrote:

Strange -- seems to work, when just using the links.
The best solution would be to get thinner tubing. You could also make the windway a bit more narrow to reduce the amount of air the whistle needs. Or try another type of construction by leaving the tube in one piece and carving the windway into the fipple plug and part of the tube from the inside. If you use the construction in the picture, it would be better to somehow glue the tape on the other side, not on the bottom of the windway as that will change the angle of the airstream towards the blade. It baffles me that the whistle will sound at all after this gaffa-tape treatment.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2021 8:20 pm 
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Around here, 1/2" CPVC pipe is more like 2 mm thick, or maybe less, https://www.homedepot.ca/product/bow-pl ... 1000120793. Even 3/4" CPVC is only about 2 mm thick. I would consider 1/2" pipe too narrow for an alto A whistle. I've made a nice Bb out of it, but that's pushing it. On the other hand, 3/4" is on the wide side for A, at least to my taste.

You could try filing or sanding down the tube at the edges of the windway. This could make it harder to get the cap portion of the mouthpiece to seal against those edges where you've sanded them down. Rather than making the cap from larger-diameter tubing, I generally make it from the same size, split lengthwise and expanded around the main tube, a la Guido Gonzato, https://www.guidogonzato.it/whistle/index.html. This makes it less of a problem to get a good seal around the windway.

Have you checked the thickness on the PEX pipe available to you? For example, https://www.homedepot.ca/product/sharkb ... 1000829915. It's easier to carve than CPVC, although it doesn't sand or file well.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2021 9:55 am 
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I can't see the original image links but i can see the links in Sedi's quote. And I must say, that's a clean looking first whistle. I can envision you making some good stuff.

This is why I pretty much skipped using pvc (not that I should have). I'm in the same boat, all the pvc I've ever bought was at least 3mm thick walls. A possible issue with the duct tape is that as you make it higher, the lip will seem lower. Normally you want the lip to be visible through the windway, either just slightly at the bottom, or some like the feadog, its pretty much in the middle. It can work while not visible, but if you tried to make the windway much more efficient with more tape it would run into issues. Like one case can be when you try to overblow for higher notes, you get no note at all.

That said because your tape fix worked, heres a more permanent version- Make a wooden recorder block. Its much more annoying than just finding a dowel that fits in. But it has the flat shoulders that come up into the windway, so if you can get it right it will be like your tape but much more permanent.
http://www.flute-a-bec.com/bouchongb.html

I've seen another maker mention using polycarbonate tubing before, you may be able to find that in thinner tubes.

My actual recommendation- Another option is if you could find a tube thats too small to fit over your pvc, you could sand the main pvc tube down so that the other will fit. This will make the windway less than the 3mm it is normally. So If your 3/4 pvc tube is 15mm inner, with 3mm walls, its 21mm outer. So if you could find a tube thats 17mm inner, you could sand your pvc so that tube fits over. And you now should have a 1mm windway instead of 3mm. This can be tricky without a lathe to perfectly sand it evenly, but should still be doable. I'd probobly recommend trying this as my best idea. If you want to try this, you'd probobly want to go about it similar to how the guy describes makign the recorder block. Try to measure and draw lines in your tube to mark how far in you want to sand. Then when you get it almost as small as you need, use the tube you are tryign to fit over to try and get it perfect. It will take a bit of practice so you may want to start with normal 'not a whistle' pvc, but once you are good at it I'd expect you could do it easily and consistently, makign it a good idea. Note that I've never done this myself, I've only taking off like 0.5-1mm off tubes to make tuning slides and stuff.

My thoughts on using aluminum tubes instead of pvc, which is what I tried to do before when I didnt want to use pvc - Aluminum tubing is pretty easy to find in either 1mm or 1.5mm walls. The hard part with that is For me they never actually fit together well, so you need to do a decent amount of sanding to make them fit (or they were lose and dont seal in any way, and is useless). Which you'd want at least a belt sander for, or a lathe. And sanding a 1mm tube down so a tube fits over it can make the windway too small. So for these reasons while using aluminum could sound easier, it has its own struggles. So I'd just recommend trying my above suggestion using your 3/4 pvc.

But theres many more solutions and ways to make them than I've just mentioned, so I trust that you will find the best method for how you want to make them. While I've found making whistles to be much more complicated than the drilling holes in tubes and making a lip like I originally thought, that just makes it so when you make somethign your happy with it feels that much cooler.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2021 11:57 am 
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Location: Dallas, TX
Narzog wrote:
I can't see the original image links but i can see the links in Sedi's quote. And I must say, that's a clean looking first whistle. I can envision you making some good stuff.


Thanks for the kind words, and thanks everybody for your thoughts. Signed up for a new hosting service and am trying it out below.

UPDATE on project:
I've done some research and here's what I figured out. I was using Schedule 40 PVC. It has the thicker wall. There used to be something called Schedule 20, but it no longer meets plumbing code so can't be found now easily.

But as Tunborough mentioned, there is something called CPVC which has a much thinner wall, not to mention different OD and IDs. I got some 3/4" and 1" of that in 5 foot lengths. My next Alto A (or G maybe) will be with the 3/4" as the main tube and the 1" as the mouthpiece outer part.

UPDATE ON CURRENT BUILD:

On the current build, I was able to use oak veneer and cut out small pieces of shim to glue to the top of the fipple block, replacing the duct tape. I put in 3 which cut the depth in half (roughly).

I used wood glue and mashed them in pretty good. Seems to be working well and holding. You can sort of see it in the second from bottom picture below.

I made a different piece for the outer part of the mouthpiece. Mainly so I'd have a little bit more contact between the main pipe and the mouthpiece so I could put a slight radius on the end part.

First Version:

Image

Image

Image

Updated Mouthpiece:

Image

Image

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2021 2:21 pm 
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Another idea: I didn't use plumbing pipe for my first builds (I now use aluminium) but instead something called electrical conduit pipe which has about 1mm wall thickness. Should work much better and they can be stuck together, so one end is a bit thicker and can be cut off and used as a windway cover.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2021 1:54 pm 
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Sedi wrote:
Another idea: I didn't use plumbing pipe for my first builds (I now use aluminium) but instead something called electrical conduit pipe which has about 1mm wall thickness. Should work much better and they can be stuck together, so one end is a bit thicker and can be cut off and used as a windway cover.

Unfortunately, all the conduit around here is also schedule 40, so it has the exact same dimensions as the white PVC piping, just with a fire rating and highter price tag :(
I think I'll try a few different design ideas with PVC and if it goes well, aluminum or copper may be in my future.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2021 2:09 pm 
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Ah, okay. In Germany they are very different from plumbing PCV pipes.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2021 8:59 pm 
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I found some clear polycarbonate tubing on Amazon that is thinner than Schedule 40, but it is fairly brittle.


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