It is currently Mon Jan 18, 2021 8:37 am

All times are UTC - 6 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 61 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Author Message
 
PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2020 10:30 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2010 11:31 am
Posts: 5621
Location: the Back of Beyond
Sedi wrote:
There is no German word for tin whistle.


Has Blechflöte (I have come across that one a few times) gone out of fashion or is that just a recent (-ish) attempt at adaption/translation of the English name?

_________________
My brain hurts

Image


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2020 11:54 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun May 01, 2016 6:54 am
Posts: 767
I honestly never heard that word before. I have always known (since age 13, more than 30 yrs ago) it as a "tin whistle". That doesn't mean that the word "Blechflöte" hasn't been used but I never heard or read it anywhere. The online-seller "Thomann" also calls it a "Flageolett" but that is in German (and also in English AFAIK) clearly a completely different instrument, so I think, they just don't know what they're talking about.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2020 12:20 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2010 11:31 am
Posts: 5621
Location: the Back of Beyond
Quote:
I honestly never heard that word before.


I have. A quick google turns up a fair few instances of its use also.

Quote:
The online-seller "Thomann" also calls it a "Flageolett" but that is in German (and also in English AFAIK) clearly a completely different instrument


Correctly or not, whistles have been marketed as 'flageolets' for donkey's years.

Image

_________________
My brain hurts

Image


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2020 1:14 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun May 01, 2016 6:54 am
Posts: 767
Ah, you're right, one of those cardboard displays even hangs in a local music shop (I think he never refills it though and over the years I bought quite a few of those, never really noticed the "Flageolet"-writing). However, I have never heard anyone call it that -- and I'm strictly speaking for the usage in the German language, as should be clear.
When I google "Blechflöte" the most hits seem to be (poorly) automatically translated from "tin whistle". Yes, it looks like some people did use it but like I said, I never heard or read it before you mentioned it.
I think it is strange however that there is no proper German word for it -- because there exists a keyless flute with the same fingering (but smaller holes than your typical "Irish" flute) which has a very German sounding name (it is also widely used in Austria) and it is called the "Schwegel". But a simple 6-hole end-blown whistle doesn't really exist anymore in German traditional music from what I can tell. There must have been one for sure at some point. I don't know the name for it though. But that is an interesting subject -- might have to go hunting for some literature on German historical instruments.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2020 10:17 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 01, 2019 3:33 pm
Posts: 162
Location: North America. Way north.
The photo of the Flageolet rack reminds me of when I had both high F and high G whistles. High F was no problem physically, but high G is too cramped for my fingers. These days I'm using a sopranino recorder from the good folks at Yamaha to sail up that high, and the more rounded tone of a recorder is easier on my ears that the piercing tones from whistles in that range. That being said, I've heard some nice high-F and high-G whistle tones from Anak, Nick Metcalf whistles, Carbony and Humphrey.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2020 2:21 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2010 11:31 am
Posts: 5621
Location: the Back of Beyond
Quote:
I think it is strange however that there is no proper German word for it


You have to wonder though. During the early part of the last century whistles were made in Germany, many Clarke like tin ones:

Image

I have even seen photos of Nazi era ones, swastikas and all as well as pics of Hitlerjugend boys playing them.

John Killourhy had a catalogue of a company in Dresden that made wooden whistles, which he would pull out if he had a notion you might be continental, to ask you if you could trace the company. He didn't get it if you tried explain not much of that city would have survived. He had one of those whistles, which inspired the Sweet Killourhy. Awful loud thing it was too.

Anyway, the point is: they were made and sold, so under what name were they advertised?

_________________
My brain hurts

Image


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2020 4:01 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2017 5:47 am
Posts: 1000
Location: Surrey/Hants border, England
I like those Generation high F & G whistles. :thumbsup:

Mind you, I seldom/barely go into the second octave with what I play on them..... :lol:

_________________
Keith.
Trying to do justice to my various musical instruments.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2020 7:32 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun May 01, 2016 6:54 am
Posts: 767
Mr.Gumby wrote:
Anyway, the point is: they were made and sold, so under what name were they advertised?

Good question. Maybe it was indeed sold under "Blechflöte". I think I gotta research a bit about that. From what I found out so far, it seems that currently there is no simple 6-hole-whistle used in German traditional "Volksmusik". It was replaced by the recorder (Blockflöte). I might have to ask the husband of a cousin of mine who plays so-called "medieval music" (but I think the music itself is not all that authentic apart from the instruments they use -- he has a huge collection of instruments).


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2020 8:46 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 10, 2006 7:25 am
Posts: 4859
Location: WV to the OC
Sedi wrote:
so-called "medieval music"


Around here the so-called medieval music is generally Renaissance music played on Baroque instruments!

It's like our local Renaissance Faire which features people playing Generation whistles with the red and blue plastic tops in addition to plastic Yamaha Baroque recorders. (There is one ensemble that plays actual Renaissance music on reproduction Renaissance instruments, but they're the exception.)

I think the Germans are far ahead of us when it comes to authenticity in these things.

About words for the Irish whistle, English doesn't have a word either.

There's "whistle" which is a generic term for anything that makes a whistling sound, be it on a steam train or steam boat or the whistles worn on lanyards by sports officials.

So in a Common Germanic sort of way English has to cobble together compound terms like "tin whistle" or "penny whistle" or "Irish whistle" none of which are very fitting or accurate. I've been onstage doing a Q & A and been asked the name of the instrument I'm playing. I say "it's called a tin whistle, or an Irish whistle, or a penny whistle, but it's made from aluminium by a Englishman living in Germany and cost $300."

In any case it would be nice if an English word- a single word- would emerge for our instrument.

_________________
Richard Cook
1978 Quinn uilleann pipes
1945 Starck Highland pipes
Goldie Low D whistle


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2020 9:18 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun May 01, 2016 6:54 am
Posts: 767
I'm not sure the German "medieval music" is all that much different. I've even seen someone play a very modern type alloy whistle at a "Rennaisance Faire" around here (I have only been to one so far -- in Germany they call them "Mittelaltermarkt" or "Mittelalterfest" -- which would translate to "Middle Ages Market" or "Middle Ages Fest") -- I think it might have been an Alba but I didn't get a close enough look.
Maybe we should start a thread about that -- we've gone a little off-topic here, I guess :D .
I also researched the origin of the word "Schwegel" or "swegel" which are narrow-bore (I think slightly conical) flutes used in Bavarian and Austrian (also Swiss) traditional music, especially in the "Salzkammergut" in Austria. "Schwegel" comes from "swegel" or old German "suegala" which means shinbone (they are made of wood but I guess were made of bone at some point) and the word was also used for tabor pipes and I think 6-hole whistles. Nowadays it is only used for transverse flutes.
http://www.garchinger-pfeifer.de/pschwegel.htm


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2020 9:32 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Dec 05, 2010 2:59 pm
Posts: 1145
Location: Southwestern Ontario
pancelticpiper wrote:
So in a Common Germanic sort of way English has to cobble together compound terms like "tin whistle" or "penny whistle" or "Irish whistle"
In a Germanic sort of way ...

Sixholeductedopenaerophone

(Just kidding.)


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2020 10:54 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2011 5:39 pm
Posts: 3129
Location: Kinlochleven
pancelticpiper wrote:
In any case it would be nice if an English word- a single word- would emerge for our instrument.

It's called a whistle! Yes, I've read the rest of your post, but the existence of other types of whistles doesn't stop plain whistle being appropriate to the instrument any more than harp, keyboard, organ or various other terms have to mean particular musical instruments or indeed anything musical at all...

_________________
And we in dreams behold the Hebrides.

Why I teach... and where
Master of nine?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2020 11:14 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2010 11:31 am
Posts: 5621
Location: the Back of Beyond
Whistle is not any more or less unspecific as the generic 'flute'. In fact a lot of languages will use some variant of 'flute' to describe the whistle and I have known a good few older Irish players who would call the whistle 'the flute' but flûte, fluit, flöte, feadóg, on their own or with some mention of the material the instrument is made of are all common.

And, whether you like it or not, 'flageolet' was once common usage.

Image

_________________
My brain hurts

Image


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2020 1:15 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2014 4:56 pm
Posts: 55
Location: Marquette, Upper Peninsula of Michigan
I have a Clare whistle that I think has a lot of character to her voice. I call her Janis, as in Janis Joplin. I put some putty in the cavity of the mouthpiece, because i felt it made it a little less wobbly on the bell note. Other than that, I liked it plain with no tweaks.
Chiff is subjective to some degree. I feel my Clare whistle sounds a little husky and smoky. But it’s got a sweet, lilting sound to it, too. It doesn’t sound raspy or scratchy.
I have four Clares and they all have that sound like a nightclub singer that smokes and drinks a little too much, so I doubt it’s my playing or the putty. Out of all my whistles, I think when I play Amazing Grace, the Clare makes it sound the most soulful. It’s not as airy as a Sweetone or Meg, but just a bit airy.
It’s got it’s own voice. Think Janis Joplin or Billie Holiday, not Whitney Houston or Celine Dione.
I have quite a few whistles. Stock out of the box and Freeman tweaked ones. If someone said, grab a whistle to play the blues, I would grab a Clare, hands down. They sell them new on eBay and I suppose they have a website, too, but I like the ease of Ebay. I think they took about ten days to get from Ireland to me in Michigan, USA, but that was pre-Covid. I have the one piece and two piece models in brass and like them both. I think they have nickel available now, but do not have those versions and can not comment on the brightness or chiffiness.
I also have an ugly neon green Clarke Sweetone from the thrift store. I got the mouthpiece pulled off and tweaked it myself, putting some poster putty in the mouthpiece. I like that old green thing quite a bit. I find myself playing it almost as much as my favorite Clare. It’s definitely close to my favorite whistle when I think about it. It’s got that chiffy, bluesy quality I really like, but not as airy as my untweaked Sweetones. It is more forgiving to breathing and air control than my Clare on the lower notes. It’s my easiest playing whistle. No squeaks or squawks, it just plays, as Sweetones and Megs are known for. They are cheap and available in the USA, so maybe get one and put some poster putty in the cavity.
You want more chiff, use a tiny screwdriver or bamboo skewer to rough up the putty so it’s not smooth. That should disrupt the airflow and give it more tonal variations. That’s my theory anyhow. I did that to the putty in the Clare to see what would happen and I felt like the tone wasn’t so pure, like the sound waves were wavier, LoL.
Your mileage may vary. Give the roughed up putty tweak a try with any whistle and see what happens. It’s cheap and easy and you may find what you’re looking for.
Lisa


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2020 7:29 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 01, 2019 3:33 pm
Posts: 162
Location: North America. Way north.
Squeakie wrote:
It’s got it’s own voice. Think Janis Joplin or Billie Holiday, not Whitney Houston or Celine Dione.
I have quite a few whistles.
You want more chiff, use a tiny screwdriver or bamboo skewer to rough up the putty so it’s not smooth. That should disrupt the airflow and give it more tonal variations. That’s my theory anyhow. I did that to the putty in the Clare to see what would happen and I felt like the tone wasn’t so pure, like the sound waves were wavier, LoL.
Your mileage may vary. Give the roughed up putty tweak a try with any whistle and see what happens. It’s cheap and easy and you may find what you’re looking for.
Lisa


Great comparison between Janis Joplin/Billie Holiday VS Whitney Houston, for breathiness or chiff in whistles. Those singers can't substitute for each other, but while Whitney Houston could add breathiness as an option, Joplin and Holiday could not turn their voices into crystalline clear instruments that Houston had. So they each remain their own worlds, and music is better off for it. I could listen to Whitney Houston or Janis Joplin for half an hour and get drained of adrenaline, but I could listen to Billie Holiday for hours and feel nothing but refreshed and cleansed. There are whistles that are thrilling and those that are meditative and an infinity of musical roles to serve.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 61 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google and 23 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
[ Time : 0.130s | 12 Queries | GZIP : On ]
(dh)