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PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2020 7:37 pm 
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Hi Folks,
Hoping you can all help me out here?
I'm looking for a really strong "chiff" based sounding whistle in high D, other words the complete opposite of clear, sharp and clean...
By "chiff" I suppose my meaning is in relation to being "dirty, edgy, breathy" if that makes sense? (I hope my terminology is right here?)
Let me know your kind thoughts?
Sergio...

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2020 3:35 am 
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A Clarke maybe. It has a lot of wind noise.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2020 4:22 am 
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Not shrill/sharp types are Clarkes & Tony Dixon ABS. of the two, I prefer the TD.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2020 6:12 am 
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Another example would be a Shaw, which has a similar construction to a Clarkes but with better material and better craftsmanship.
https://daveshaw.co.uk/SHAW_Whistles/shaw_whistles.html

My TWZ "pure brass" also sounds rather breathy:
https://www.tinwhistle.de/tin-whistles/ ... histle.php


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2020 1:06 pm 
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thedarkpiper wrote:
Hi Folks,
Hoping you can all help me out here?
I'm looking for a really strong "chiff" based sounding whistle in high D, other words the complete opposite of clear, sharp and clean...
By "chiff" I suppose my meaning is in relation to being "dirty, edgy, breathy" if that makes sense? (I hope my terminology is right here?)
Let me know your kind thoughts?
Sergio...


Chiff is one of the things that someone needs to do a video on, I haven't been able to work out exactly what people are talking about with it, there seems to be a couple of definitions going around.

A friend of mine has a husband who restores (and builds) pipe organs, and given that's where you can compare a chiffy sound, I asked him about it, and showed him some of the definitions of it that I could find, one including a visualisation of it. He explained it simply as the attack on the note having a different wave form than the sustain due to competing harmonics.

But then I've heard people describing the texture of the sustain as chiff instead of just the attack, and then describe some really sweet sounding whistles as being chiffy.

For the descriptions you're mentioning though, dirty, edgy, breathy, if you're meaning you want a very textured sound, then I would suggest you listen to a lot of different players, pick the one that sounds that way to you and then see what whistle they are playing, and choose from them.

I love the sound Brian Finnegan gets from his Goldie Overtons, and I would definitely describe them as that when he plays them, but he plays ones that are custom made for him, with a hard breath requirement instead of a soft one. He gets a hard dark flute tone out of them, that someone else playing a different Overton may not. But other whistles have other highly textured sounds too, there's reedy, woody, raspy, rough, harsh, bamboo (not the material it's made out of, it's a specific timbre/tone colour that flute players can get with alternate fingerings)

So yeah, I'd love someone to really explain the definition of chiff with examples considering the two opposing definitions Ive found!


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2020 2:05 pm 
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I'm pretty certain that most of the time it just means "breathy" in the context of whistle-playing.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2020 2:53 pm 
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Greenfire wrote:
A friend of mine has a husband who restores (and builds) pipe organs, and given that's where you can compare a chiffy sound, I asked him about it, and showed him some of the definitions of it that I could find, one including a visualisation of it. He explained it simply as the attack on the note having a different wave form than the sustain due to competing harmonics.
Yes, the word comes from the pipe-organ world, and applies strictly to a non-musical sound quality at the very beginning (attack) of each note. It means what it sounds like: CHiffff. In the whistle world, it is often used to mean a breathy sound throughout the note, but in keeping with the origin of the word, I prefer to use "breathy" or "windy" to describe sustained sounds, rather than chiff.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2020 2:55 pm 
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thedarkpiper wrote:
Hi Folks,
Hoping you can all help me out here?
I'm looking for a really strong "chiff" based sounding whistle in high D, other words the complete opposite of clear, sharp and clean...
By "chiff" I suppose my meaning is in relation to being "dirty, edgy, breathy" if that makes sense? (I hope my terminology is right here?)
Let me know your kind thoughts?
Sergio...


Whistle terms can be subjective and abstract at times. After thinking for a bit, you might be interested in a Milligan Dymondwood model. The one I have has a rich, complex tone, and is similar to the McManus in power. I wouldn't call it "edgy" though, as I equate that to the term "sharp" or "crisp". The tonal opposite of the Milligan might be the Burke Session, or the Killarney, which are both very smooth and pure.

The Alba soprano D has a kind of thick, husky, raspy tone to it that might be described as "chiffy". I don't know Stacy O'Gorman plans to re-open her whistle making business though. It's been closed since COVID struck.

Another possibility is the Reyburn. I haven't played his high D, but the low F I have has what I'd call an earthy tone, warm, thick, and complex. He has a few options at high D, and one of them might match what you're looking for.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2020 3:52 pm 
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Tunborough wrote:
Yes, the word comes from the pipe-organ world, and applies strictly to a non-musical sound quality at the very beginning (attack) of each note. It means what it sounds like: CHiffff. In the whistle world, it is often used to mean a breathy sound throughout the note, but in keeping with the origin of the word, I prefer to use "breathy" or "windy" to describe sustained sounds, rather than chiff.



Then I can say my Walton's High D is pretty chiffy, it really has that CH start! Here I thought it was just me, the Sweetone I have does it also, just not quite so pronounced. I'll be able to compare once I get a couple more whistles, have a Dixon and a Becker on the way.

At least those are two really inexpensive options for OP to check out!


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2020 10:04 am 
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Greenfire wrote:
thedarkpiper wrote:
Hi Folks,
Chiff is one of the things that someone needs to do a video on, I haven't been able to work out exactly what people are talking about with it, there seems to be a couple of definitions going around.


Chiff is nothing more than the "non-musical or disorganised sound" that a pipe makes when beginning to speak -- it's, as you organ restorer friend indicates, the attack.

It's kind of like, literally, when you say the word "chiff", chiff is the [tʃ] sound at the beginning of the word.

Here it is in action, since you want a video!

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2020 11:29 am 
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There's even a dictionary definition:

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/chiff

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2020 12:05 pm 
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I thought someone had posted this already, but apparently not. This is a good summation from the archives of all the things people argue over when they say "chiff" or "chiffy":

viewtopic.php?t=24168

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2020 12:24 pm 
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AngelicBeaver wrote:
Whistle terms can be subjective and abstract at times.

Truer words are spoken only very rarely.

A Feadóg (the current production, anyway) seems to have a good amount of cliff to it.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2020 1:11 pm 
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All of my whistles are whistley, and I dare anyone to contradict me :P

:D

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2020 3:29 pm 
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ecadre wrote:
All of my whistles are whistley, and I dare anyone to contradict me :P

:D


But are they cliffy :D

Bob

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