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PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2020 7:03 pm 
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OK I got out the whistle roll and tried that

xxo xxx

cut on closed Middle D.

I played it on everything from a Low C to a High Eb and that gracenote didn't squeal on any of them.

However it did confirm my recollection that that cut/gracenote isn't as good-sounding on many of my whistles as the F# and G cuts.

xxx xox
xxx oxx

On several whistles, no matter how quickly I played the A cut it had a noticeably different sound that the F# or G cuts. (It was the smoothest-sounding on my Low D.)

But no squeals. So then I tried on purpose to make the whistles squeal. Success! I found out if I significantly over-blew a whistle I could get it to squeal when doing the A cut on closed Middle D.

It perhaps gives an insight into how much pressure you're using, considerably more than I use.

Unless there's something quirky in the voicing of your whistle.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2020 8:18 pm 
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I suspect it may be a little of both really considering it's no where near as bad on one whistle over the other. Likely more breath than whistle, though it has a few issues already.

I'll have to play with it more and see what I can do to keep it in line, unvented on my one whistle has very little change to vented, it's more noticeable on the whistle that squeals more often. I'm not a fan of the sound of that whistle in any case, and can't tune it, and it's very sharp, so hopefully I'll be able to find one that I not only like the sound of better, but that I can control the breath in a little more.

There is a lot of room in the notes on that one if that makes sense? On the other, I can lean into the notes and they are more stable, but on this one, even the slightest change has a big change in tuning, as well as the entire whistle being really sharp no matter how softly I blow, I may just work on the one I prefer, and play with my breath more to prevent the squealing.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2020 7:36 am 
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BTW it's not only closed Middle D

xxx xxx

but also E in the 2nd octave, that the A cut can sound funky on.

xxx xxo
xxo xxo
xxx xxo

It's why you'll see quite a few players on whistle, flute, and uilleann pipes use the G cut instead, on High E.

xxx xxo
xxx oxo
xxx xxo

But many/most would use the A cut on Low E, which sounds fine.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2020 9:52 am 
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Ahhhhh, okay.... I hadn't found an issue on the e... until you mentioned, then I tested it. It's quite a bit more stable, more like the vented d but does give the occasional squeal. Weirdly I can play a vented e on that whistle too. Now I need more whistles to experiment with!

I have another question for you though, I can't for the life of me remove the mouthpiece from the sweetone I have, and it's on average 25-30 cents sharp on every note, to the point that some notes are registering as a higher one (e shows as a really flat f). I can't breathe the notes any closer than this, though on the Waltons, I can get almost every note perfect, and without trying, I can still get them close.

I intended to try to remove the mouthpiece to tweak the tuning a little better, and asked in a tin whistle facebook group if anyone had suggestions for removing it, but was met with people telling me that the sweetone should be the same length as my Waltons, despite being conical, that the shape doesn't affect the length... and that the length between the end of the whistle and the lowest hole should match, as well as all the holes be the same size and placement.

I only have 2 whistles to compare, and am unsure that this makes sense, as I would expect that even a different bore size may require a different length whistle, and that it's the hole size that determines the tuning between notes, so not every whistle from every manufacturer would be identical. I believe I'm just getting really bad advice, though if I'm wrong, I'd be happy to hear it from someone here. I have a Becker and a Dixon en route to compare to soon, but they aren't here yet for me to determine this for myself. The sweetone is a good inch shorter than the Waltons. Should every same key whistle, regardless of maker, really be identical in this way?


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2020 12:26 pm 
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Quote:
tin whistle facebook group.......the sweetone should be the same length as my Waltons, despite being conical, that the shape doesn't affect the length... and that the length between the end of the whistle and the lowest hole should match, as well as all the holes be the same size and placement.


:lol: Different bores & different hole sizes to be expected on different makes - if every whistle was the exact same we wouldn't have so many different makes. :D

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2020 12:31 pm 
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See, that's what I thought too! I've only ever seen generations, feadogs and waltons in person before the sweetone, and never really noticed much difference between them, though also never really compared them either...

But I had thought none of them would be identical, so was surprised to be told they should be! I gather these people are just blowing smoke then... else they're completely clueless


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2020 3:09 pm 
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Most of the "traditional" whistles like Feadogs, Waltons, Generations and Oaks are indeed almost exactly the same. On some it looks like the tube even comes from the same third party, like when comparing an Oak and a Feadog Pro.
But other makes, especially hand-made whistles can have very different hole-sizes and placement. In fact, the hole size and placement has a very big influence on sound and playing characteristics and volume.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2020 6:16 pm 
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Sedi wrote:
Most of the "traditional" whistles like Feadogs, Waltons, Generations and Oaks are indeed almost exactly the same. On some it looks like the tube even comes from the same third party, like when comparing an Oak and a Feadog Pro.


And the early Killarneys, didn't they appear to have Feadog tubes? Or I might be misremembering.

The odd thing is, I have random old Generation bits, and different Generation Ds often aren't interchangeable. The tubing will have slightly different ODs and the sockets will of course be sized to match that particular tubing. I had to hunt through some Generation D tubes to find one that fit my Killarney head (the Killarney's original tube had been chopped too short for some unfathomable reason) and likewise to find a Generation Eb body that fit into one of my Feadog Mk1 heads.

Which is a thing with me, I guess, Frankenwhistles:

Eb: Mk1 Feadog head on Generation body

D: Killarney head on Generation body

C#: Waltons C head on modified Generation body

A: Freeman Bb Generation head on home-made body

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2020 7:30 pm 
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I feel much better now! Shame no one in the group disagreed with them other than me. I have to be picky about where I go for information I gather.

In any case, my Dixon DX005 came in today, and I don't have any of the issues I need to work on with the others, I gather it's a very forgiving whistle. I can barely even hear my finger lift on venting the second octave d. I can see why people recommend it to newbies all the time. I love that I can tune it... my husband prefers this one because he believes it to be quieter.

I have a Humphrey on my wish list, and wanted to see if the mouthpiece on it would fit on my Waltons and vice versa. I really wish I could get the mouthpiece off this Sweetone, I also would have tried to find another tube to fit it. Someone really aught to make a WOAD starter pack... though I imagine I'll have my own soon enough.

In the meantime, I have a new whistle to try!


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2020 8:45 pm 
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Greenfire wrote:
I really wish I could get the mouthpiece off this Sweetone, I also would have tried to find another tube to fit it.


Have you tried running hot water from the tap on the head and after about 30-45 seconds immediately twist and pull the head (have a towel handy to use to keep your hands off the hot head and body). It should come right on off. I did this to a Sweetone and a Celtic model and the heads came off without a problem.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2020 9:09 pm 
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TxWhistler wrote:

Have you tried running hot water from the tap on the head and after about 30-45 seconds immediately twist and pull the head (have a towel handy to use to keep your hands off the hot head and body). It should come right on off. I did this to a Sweetone and a Celtic model and the heads came off without a problem.



I've tried hot water, and even sitting it in water straight from the kettle. I tried putting it in the fridge first and then using hot water, I even encouraged my husband to try it, because I thought I just didn't have the strength. The reason I posted the question in the first place was because I was ready to take pliers to it even at risk of breaking it, hoping someone would have other solutions for me. That's when they came to the conclusion that because it wasn't exactly the same dimensions as the Waltons, it must have been sent in the wrong key, or that I should return it as faulty. I really believe the whistle just needs the mouthpiece moved a smidge and it would be fine.

Maybe I need to knock it really hard on something first? At this point, I'll put it away, and when I have a collection of whistles that I'm not fond of, I'll stick it with them and make a starter pack for someone, who may enjoy it as is. It honestly probably sounds better outside of the resonance of my own skull, but it just isn't doing it for me as is.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 4:47 am 
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I did remove the mouthpieces of both my Sweetones, one in C and one in D. They are not glued, just stuck on, but it is a really tight fit. I think I wrapped a towel around the head and pulled really hard. Don't twist, as it will do no good because of the seam at the back. It will come off with enough force but it might get damaged. It worked on both of mine without any damage however. The material is a bit softer than on a Generation mouthpiece. I made a new body for the head of my Sweetone in D because I hated the seam in the back. So I made a new body in PVC.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 8:15 am 
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Maybe try using the edge of a table, or something similar, put /rest the edge of the head on it, holding the tube tightly, then bash your hand downwards with your other hand.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 1:19 pm 
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pancelticpiper wrote:
Sedi wrote:
Most of the "traditional" whistles like Feadogs, Waltons, Generations and Oaks are indeed almost exactly the same. On some it looks like the tube even comes from the same third party, like when comparing an Oak and a Feadog Pro.


And the early Killarneys, didn't they appear to have Feadog tubes? Or I might be misremembering.




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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 3:08 pm 
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well now, no wonder the whistles that aren't using the same tubing need the holes in different places and different length tubes! /s

I should share the photo used as evidence to show me that all the cheap whistles are garbage, none of them are uniform! I've been advised to go buy a "good" whistle and return the sweetone. My Dixon Dx005 is a "good" whistle. Mind you, it's probably just proof positive that even my Waltons is somehow faulty because the hole placement isn't identical.

I'm of course now determined to somehow get this bit off the end.


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