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PostPosted: Sat Oct 31, 2020 8:44 am 
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AuLoS303 wrote:
recorders aren't in keys, they are chromatic


All orchestra wind instruments are chromatic, yet we have the C flute and Bb clarinet etc.

With woodwinds it varies on which fingering has traditionally been used to name the instrument from.

Irish flutes and whistles use the "six finger note"

xxx xxx D thus a "D flute"

Boehm flute and sax use the "seven finger note" (a full tone below the six finger note)

xxx xxx x C thus a "C flute" or "C melody sax"

or the note that would be the crossfingered C natural on Irish whistle, done with the thumb-key on the flute.

Clarinets use the "three finger note"

xxx ooo Bb thus a "Bb clarinet".

It's just the traditions of the various instruments.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 31, 2020 9:27 am 
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pancelticpiper wrote:
AuLoS303 wrote:
recorders aren't in keys, they are chromatic


All orchestra wind instruments are chromatic, yet we have the C flute and Bb clarinet etc.

With woodwinds it varies on which fingering has traditionally been used to name the instrument from.

Irish flutes and whistles use the "six finger note"

xxx xxx D thus a "D flute"

Boehm flute and sax use the "seven finger note" (a full tone below the six finger note)

xxx xxx x C thus a "C flute" or "C melody sax"

or the note that would be the crossfingered C natural on Irish whistle, done with the thumb-key on the flute.

Clarinets use the "three finger note"

xxx ooo Bb thus a "Bb clarinet".

It's just the traditions of the various instruments.


Thanks Richard, that was exactly what I was thinking of saying, but didn't since it was all getting a bit whimsical and far away from the only real point I had made, which is that a Descant/Soprano "C" recorder is basically the equivalent of a "high D" whistle. So though they are not the same instrument, if you play a D scale from the bottom D on each instrument (6 fingers down on each instrument) it will be voiced in the same pitch or whatever (unless your recorder is pitched at A=415, but that is a different story).

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2020 1:02 pm 
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See the thread on McManus Bb whistles.

viewtopic.php?p=1239967#p1239967


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2020 5:46 pm 
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I got informed several times by recorder players that it is not right to say a soprano is in C or and alto is in F, because they can play in any key. I still say it though. Its a habit.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2020 6:02 pm 
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AuLoS303 wrote:
I still say C recorder and F recorder, its just what you're used to.

AuLoS303 wrote:
I got informed several times by recorder players that it is not right to say a soprano is in C or and alto is in F, because they can play in any key.

C recorder and F recorder (as you said before) are unarguable, whereas 'in C' or 'in F' is more debatable, but I'd say still OK. The descant/soprano is a C recorder and the treble/alto is an F recorder, just like the sixth flute and voice flute are D recorders and the fourth flute a Bb recorder. End of. And I'm a recorder player.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2020 6:26 pm 
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Peter Duggan wrote:
AuLoS303 wrote:
I still say C recorder and F recorder, its just what you're used to.

AuLoS303 wrote:
I got informed several times by recorder players that it is not right to say a soprano is in C or and alto is in F, because they can play in any key.

C recorder and F recorder (as you said before) are unarguable, whereas 'in C' or 'in F' is more debatable, but I'd say still OK. The descant/soprano is a C recorder and the treble/alto is an F recorder, just like the sixth flute and voice flute are D recorders and the fourth flute a Bb recorder. End of. And I'm a recorder player.


Yes I understand that, I'm just quoting other players. But at the end of the day its no big deal. I'll still say my soprano is in C regardless of the experts.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2020 7:11 pm 
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Peter Duggan wrote:
AuLoS303 wrote:
I still say C recorder and F recorder, its just what you're used to.

AuLoS303 wrote:
I got informed several times by recorder players that it is not right to say a soprano is in C or and alto is in F, because they can play in any key.

C recorder and F recorder (as you said before) are unarguable, whereas 'in C' or 'in F' is more debatable, but I'd say still OK. The descant/soprano is a C recorder and the treble/alto is an F recorder, just like the sixth flute and voice flute are D recorders and the fourth flute a Bb recorder. End of. And I'm a recorder player.


Yes. My sister has one of those fancy Mollenhauer Modern Soprano recorders (with the extra keys). She still refers to it as a C recorder, full stop.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2020 7:14 pm 
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Anyway, away from all the "key" stuff.

There's nowt wrong in getting both a C and a Bb whistle. Generations are cheap enough. You can find what it's like to play in those keys and you can decide what you fancy doing next.

No-one can frame or gainsay your personal preferences.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2020 3:11 am 
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I'd thought of getting a Bb whistle. It would have to be a Generation, can't afford a fancy one.
I wish Feadóg would extend their range...

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2020 5:46 am 
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AuLoS303 wrote:
I wish Feadóg would extend their range...


I agree! I would buy a Feadóg B, Bb, and/or an A in a heartbeat.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2020 7:53 am 
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AuLoS303 wrote:
a soprano is in C or and alto is in F...


Yes because that's where they read. Recorders, like Boehm flutes and Saxes, read by the "seven finger note"

xxx xxxx C therefore a "recorder in C" (or Boehm flute, sax, etc.)

xxx xxxx F therefore a "recorder in F" (or Boehm flute, sax, etc.)

Now, if you called recorders and Boehm flutes and saxes by their "six finger note"

xxx xxx

the "recorder in C" is suddenly in D, and the "recorder in F" is suddenly in G.

It's why a "C melody sax" and Boehm "C flute" and a "recorder in C" and an uilleann chanter in "concert D" and a "D whistle" and a "D Irish flute" all have corresponding fingerings such as

xxx xxo E
xxx ooo G
xoo ooo B

etc.

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