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PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2020 10:28 pm 
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I am trying to build a basic 6 hole flute that is blown with a blow hole across the top instead of having a whistle mouthpiece but still having the same notes as an Irish whistle. More of a simple pvc or bamboo type flute. My question is I have tried the Flutomat calculation sheet on Iotic.com which is suppose to be very useful but even making sure all my specs. were correctly entered into the sheet it did not work out as expected. I went a head and drilled the holes where they were suppose to be but all of them had to be much smaller in diameter to even get most all of them to the correct pitch but the sound was not what I was looking for. I am trying to build an Alto G model. As far as the total length and the embouchure hole only the tube was correct and spot on with the tuner. The problem was with the location and size of the finger holes. The finger holes had to be drilled much smaller to get the correct pitch on each note. I guess I could moved all the holes lower on the flute and increased the sizes but figured I would see if anyone on the forum could help. If I would have drilled the holes to the larger sizes called far all of the notes would have been very sharp or possibly a note higher especially at the locations the chart proposed. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2020 3:04 am 
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Sounds like you are attempting to make a modified Qena, perhaps find details about making them & adjust to suit....

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2020 5:34 am 
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I use this app:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/deta ... .diy&hl=de
Hole placement and size is perfect. But overall length has to be adjusted. I simply cut the tube a bit longer, then make the notch, then use a tuner to cut to the correct length. Then drill the holes. Works like a charm.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2020 5:49 am 
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The iotic flutomat didn't work for me either. I liked the old flutomat at "adams.edu" but it's no longer online.
https://people.adams.edu/~rjastalos/Flu ... tomat.html


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2020 1:24 pm 
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Sedi wrote:
I use this app:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/deta ... .diy&hl=de
Hole placement and size is perfect. But overall length has to be adjusted. I simply cut the tube a bit longer, then make the notch, then use a tuner to cut to the correct length. Then drill the holes. Works like a charm.
Image


That is awesome Sedi. Thanks for the info. I was not trying to make a Quena. I tried one of those years ago that was very nice wood and well made but hell to play. No the one I was trying to make was more like a flute. I will try to post a picture of it later today. It just looks like a 6 hole flute with a hole in the top. Very simple and was a proto type of what I was trying to do. Yes, that iotic.com site numbers failed me big time. I am not surprised you had problems with it too. Thanks for commenting. By the way your aluminum quena looks awesome.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2020 1:41 pm 
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fatmac wrote:
Sounds like you are attempting to make a modified Qena, perhaps find details about making them & adjust to suit....


Hello Keith, No, not a quena a flute. Will try to post a photo. It is a rough proto type but you can see how it turned out last night. Most all holes are just too small. :-? I will have to figure out how to post an image. I have not posted images on this site in a while and it looks like I will need to seek some help.



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2020 2:26 pm 
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A normal side blown flute with a stopper? In that case you need to experiment a bit with hole size and stopper position. Rule of thumb -- the bigger the holes, the better. You can then put the stopper a bit further out and get a "fatter" sound. And you need to use the right diameter of tubing -- too large and the high notes will be very difficult to play. I made a G flute from a rather thick tube but I had to do a lot of tweaking to get the 2nd octave in tune and playable at all. If the holes are too small, the 2nd octave might be flat. If the stopper is too far in, the bell note is too weak and the 2nd octave might be sharp. Moving the stopper further out will also affect some other notes, especially the E which is a problematic note on cylindrical flutes anyway as the hole is rather small to reduce finger spread -- which should be less of an issue on a G than on a low D. I did a few experiments till I was satisfied with the sound and response of my low D flutes -- there's always some compromise involved. Good thing is that the material is cheap. I like aluminium more than PVC. But you'd need a box column drill and a vice for aluminium -- and I'd very much recommend getting a mask -- I use one that can be used in a car body shop for painting. And start with smaller drills, then enlarge the holes. I sometimes do this in .5 mm steps, especially for larger holes. And I'd try to make a lip plate to get a deeper chimney at the embouchure. Improves tone and response. Just recently I had the opportunity to test one of my flutes against a delrin flute of a reputable maker (I won't tell no names) and I liked mine more. So I saved quite a bit of money :D .


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2020 8:21 pm 
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Yep your right Sedi. It does have a stopper I just had not finished it off. It is located about 3 cm from the center of the blow hole. Check out the small size of the holes. I will definitely have to do a lot of experimenting. Tried to load photo with drop box but no luck. Will try another site.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2020 2:06 am 
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I'm currently on vacation but I can post some data points for a working flute when I get home.
But don't worry, some of my prototypes were catastrophic failures. You'll get there.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2020 6:19 pm 
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Sedi wrote:
I'm currently on vacation but I can post some data points for a working flute when I get home.
But don't worry, some of my prototypes were catastrophic failures. You'll get there.


Thanks Sedi. I appreciate the info.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 2:07 pm 
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Does anyone have any ideas of how to add a lip plate to one of these pvc type flutes? I think Sedi is right about increasing the chimney on these to improve sound. Would like to experiment on that. Any ideas would be appreciated. Thanks.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 3:25 pm 
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I simply fix it with a screw straight through the stopper -- so the stopper cannot be moved afterwards but it could be replaced with another one -- however, I don't see any use in making a movable stopper on my homemade flutes. They have no tuning slide so moving the stopper out of the ideal position would just mess up the tuning.
Best would be to find a slightly larger tube that fits over the other one. That's what I tried to do but I couldn't find the right size. So instead of a "collar" I just use a smaller piece now. You could maybe also glue it in place. Then drill through both pieces to make the embouchure hole. On my design I fix the lip plate with the screw before adding the stopper while drilling. After that I fix the lip plate with zip ties, then insert the stopper to the ideal position for a balanced tuning between the octaves, then drill a hole through it and inser the screw(s) (sometimes I used two, sometimes just one). On a PVC-flute using screws would probably make the flute top-heavy but it works with aluminium.
I also tried another design on which I simply used a thicker tube where I need no lip plate because the wall is 3 mm thick. But then the tuning of a cylindrical flute will become an issue and I use a movable stopper with a "tuning rod" from a German "Zauberflöte" band-flute. So I got the best results (on a low D flute) with a slightly larger bore than you'd use on a conical flute, a stopper position slightly closer to the embouchure (compared to a conical flute) but the resulting "weaker" sound gets compensated by my embouchure design with the lip plate. So I am pretty happy with the end result. I tried to keep the design as simple as possible with the smalles number of parts and easy to source material.
Image


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2020 11:26 am 
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Sedi wrote:
I simply fix it with a screw straight through the stopper -- so the stopper cannot be moved afterwards but it could be replaced with another one -- however, I don't see any use in making a movable stopper on my homemade flutes. They have no tuning slide so moving the stopper out of the ideal position would just mess up the tuning.
Best would be to find a slightly larger tube that fits over the other one. That's what I tried to do but I couldn't find the right size. So instead of a "collar" I just use a smaller piece now. You could maybe also glue it in place. Then drill through both pieces to make the embouchure hole. On my design I fix the lip plate with the screw before adding the stopper while drilling. After that I fix the lip plate with zip ties, then insert the stopper to the ideal position for a balanced tuning between the octaves, then drill a hole through it and inser the screw(s) (sometimes I used two, sometimes just one). On a PVC-flute using screws would probably make the flute top-heavy but it works with aluminium.
I also tried another design on which I simply used a thicker tube where I need no lip plate because the wall is 3 mm thick. But then the tuning of a cylindrical flute will become an issue and I use a movable stopper with a "tuning rod" from a German "Zauberflöte" band-flute. So I got the best results (on a low D flute) with a slightly larger bore than you'd use on a conical flute, a stopper position slightly closer to the embouchure (compared to a conical flute) but the resulting "weaker" sound gets compensated by my embouchure design with the lip plate. So I am pretty happy with the end result. I tried to keep the design as simple as possible with the smalles number of parts and easy to source material.
Image


That is pretty neat and a great idea. Thanks. By the way can you post some data points of some of your previous flutes if any in Key of G ?


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