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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2020 1:38 pm 
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I’ve just posted a new video (about 11 minutes long) demonstrating what I feel is a true game changer in low D whistles, the Carbony Celtic Winds Low D with close finger hole spacing via chimney extenders. Its holes are as close together as those of a low G whistle, so people with hands of almost any size can easily play this low D. And it sounds great. I hope you’ll watch the video and post your comments. I feel this innovation will open up low whistle playing to a whole slew of new players, which is a great thing. (This whistle also comes in low C, E-flat, E and F.) Here’s the video link: https://youtu.be/abTsfOVPwPo

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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2020 2:11 pm 
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Very clever. The only issue I would envisage is cleaning the bore. The acute angle between the "chimneys" and the tube wall could build up some nasty gunge over time and be hard to remove.


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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2020 2:37 pm 
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:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: Great idea, and it's likely going to be adopted by some whistle and tenor recorder makers, pronto.

There are two parts; the angled tone hole, and the addition of a tone hole tube. For some instruments and keys, just having the angled tone hole may be enough of a difference.

The tone hole tube going into the bore: this had to have an impact on the harmonics, in some way, because simply by being present as an obstruction, the vibrating wave pattern in the tube is altered. Put in 6 of those and you've got an obstacle course. In the video link, I watched it three times, and I think I hear a slight reduction in the high harmonics in the whistle with the adjusted/angled holes. But it's not a negative, it's just different.

There are two ways to do this; by using a general tube thickness that's wider throughout, OR, by adding width to the tone hole side only (out of consideration for wanting to keep total instrument weight minimized, and material mass/instrument most efficient). I'd think that aluminum and plastic/Delrin whistles would easily find ways to adopt some version of this idea. Brass being much heavier, a brass tube that's 2X or 3X or 4X as heavy might sound great, but the instrument will be of considerable weight overall once you get into keys lower than about alto A.

Another application of this idea might be to put MORE distance between tone holes on the high F and high G whistles which are so short now, cramping fingers, and where even a tripling of instrument weight would not be an issue.

And yet another application might be to allow the use of from 7 to 10 holes on a whistle, with all the finger holes most comfortably placed, on the alto and "low" keys especially.

Three thumbs up! is my reaction.


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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2020 2:49 pm 
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Following. I recently looked at this option and determined the ergonomics were likely to still not work for me due to the reach to the holes. (I have some RSI issues.) It looked like the E was as big as I wanted to go for both reach and spacing issues. I'm still saving for a Carbony E.

Are you saying the chimney extenders are now also available in C, Eb, E, and F? That would be new information to me.


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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2020 3:03 pm 
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jimhanks wrote:
Following. I recently looked at this option and determined the ergonomics were likely to still not work for me due to the reach to the holes. (I have some RSI issues.) It looked like the E was as big as I wanted to go for both reach and spacing issues. I'm still saving for a Carbony E.

Are you saying the chimney extenders are now also available in C, Eb, E, and F? That would be new information to me.


Yes, that is correct. And if you like, you can specify that the close hole spacing be implemented for just the top or bottom hand. Personally I have it for both hands on my low D, plus I have the two thumb holes for C and F.

As shown in the video, the hole spacing on the close-spaced low D is equivalent to the spacing on a normal low G, which is quite a big improvement.

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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2020 4:20 pm 
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Blower wrote:
Very clever. The only issue I would envisage is cleaning the bore. The acute angle between the "chimneys" and the tube wall could build up some nasty gunge over time and be hard to remove.


Its important to swab your whistle from both ends. The Fipple is not only tunable it removes for cleaning. I like a microfiber swab but if you can also use a chanter brush as well.


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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2020 4:48 pm 
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Blower wrote:
Very clever. The only issue I would envisage is cleaning the bore. The acute angle between the "chimneys" and the tube wall could build up some nasty gunge over time and be hard to remove.


By the way, the chimney extender tubes are installed only on holes 1, 3 and 6.

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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2020 6:19 pm 
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Blower wrote:
.....The acute angle between the "chimneys" and the tube wall could build up some nasty gunge over time and be hard to remove.


Considering the resin materials used to manufacture it, just spray it inside and out with Simple Green. Let it soak for 20 minutes, then hose it off and stand it on end to dry.


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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2020 6:22 pm 
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facet wrote:
Blower wrote:
.....The acute angle between the "chimneys" and the tube wall could build up some nasty gunge over time and be hard to remove.


Considering the resin materials used to manufacture it, just spray it inside and out with Simple Green. Let it soak for 20 minutes, then hose it off and stand it on end to dry.



I was thinking just plain dish soap would likely do the trick as well.


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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2020 7:04 pm 
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RoberTunes wrote:
:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: Great idea, and it's likely going to be adopted by some whistle and tenor recorder makers, pronto.

There are two parts; the angled tone hole, and the addition of a tone hole tube. For some instruments and keys, just having the angled tone hole may be enough of a difference.

The tone hole tube going into the bore: this had to have an impact on the harmonics, in some way, because simply by being present as an obstruction, the vibrating wave pattern in the tube is altered. Put in 6 of those and you've got an obstacle course. In the video link, I watched it three times, and I think I hear a slight reduction in the high harmonics in the whistle with the adjusted/angled holes. But it's not a negative, it's just different.

There are two ways to do this; by using a general tube thickness that's wider throughout, OR, by adding width to the tone hole side only (out of consideration for wanting to keep total instrument weight minimized, and material mass/instrument most efficient). I'd think that aluminum and plastic/Delrin whistles would easily find ways to adopt some version of this idea. Brass being much heavier, a brass tube that's 2X or 3X or 4X as heavy might sound great, but the instrument will be of considerable weight overall once you get into keys lower than about alto A.

Another application of this idea might be to put MORE distance between tone holes on the high F and high G whistles which are so short now, cramping fingers, and where even a tripling of instrument weight would not be an issue.

And yet another application might be to allow the use of from 7 to 10 holes on a whistle, with all the finger holes most comfortably placed, on the alto and "low" keys especially.

Three thumbs up! is my reaction.


We use super thin wall carbon fiber tubes for the extended chimneys to minimize impact on the harmonics. They are very light and very strong, perfect material for this application.


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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2020 7:40 pm 
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robgandara wrote:
We use super thin wall carbon fiber tubes for the extended chimneys to minimize impact on the harmonics. They are very light and very strong, perfect material for this application.

How are the chimneys attached to the whistle body? Any chance they might break loose? What would that do to the tuning? And, if it affected the intonation, is a repair feasible?

Best wishes.

Steve

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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2020 7:49 pm 
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Steve Bliven wrote:
robgandara wrote:
We use super thin wall carbon fiber tubes for the extended chimneys to minimize impact on the harmonics. They are very light and very strong, perfect material for this application.

How are the chimneys attached to the whistle body? Any chance they might break loose? What would that do to the tuning? And, if it affected the intonation, is a repair feasible?

Best wishes.

Steve


They are bonded with a two-part epoxy resin designed for carbon fiber and are internal to the bore. You would be hard-pressed to find a way to remove them without destroying the whistle. They come with a lifetime warranty so if you did indeed find a way, we will replace the instrument at no charge.


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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2020 8:28 pm 
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I will point out that Bulgarian bagpipes have always had a "chimney extender", though just on one hole, a tiny hole covered by the upper hand index finger. It's called the mormorka.

Though on the Bulgarian chanter it has a different purpose, which is being the chromatic-izer one could say, as opening the mormorka raises the pitch of any note further down the scale a semitone, converting a diatonic chanter into a chromatic one.

On the Bulgarian chanters I used to have the tube was brass or aluminium and just a press-fit in the hole making it easy to remove and replace.

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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2020 9:30 pm 
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Is it only me, or is there indeed a detectable difference in tone between the 2 whistles Grey demos in the video?

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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2020 9:37 pm 
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kkrell wrote:
Is it only me, or is there indeed a detectable difference in tone between the 2 whistles Grey demos in the video?


The E hole actually has a larger diameter on the extender model so it plays slightly stronger that on the standard model.


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