Tapping

[Michael w6]

I wondered if you might be using the sheet music from the session.org,

Yes, from The Session. The dots I have are signed as 2/4 but the bars are generally structured with 3 quarter notes and 2 8ths so even as a new player I say it is a 4/4. I compared it to dots on Folk Tune Finder and it compares well it seems to me. I first found this tune in Robin Williamson's "The Penny Whistle Book" which is a 4/4 with a slightly different structure.

[benhall.1]

Yes, from The Session. The dots I have are signed as 2/4 but the bars are generally structured with 3 quarter notes and 2 8ths so even as a new player I say it is a 4/4.

You've completely confused me again. There isn't a single one of the settings on the session.org which is "signed as 2/4". What do you mean? The first one is shown with a 4/4 time signature, but is actually written out in 2/4, but that can't be the one you mean, because that one has three 8th notes and two 16th notes. I'm baffled ...

[Michael w6]

Yes, from The Session. The dots I have are signed as 2/4 but the bars are generally structured with 3 quarter notes and 2 8ths so even as a new player I say it is a 4/4.

You've completely confused me again. There isn't a single one of the settings on the session.org which is "signed as 2/4". What do you mean? The first one is shown with a 4/4 time signature, but is actually written out in 2/4, but that can't be the one you mean, because that one has three 8th notes and two 16th notes. I'm baffled ...

Well, this is interesting. Perhaps the mistake has been corrected. The version I printed some while ago is the second. As we both see it is in 4/4 But the same tune on my printed page is 2/4.

[benhall.1]

Yes, from The Session. The dots I have are signed as 2/4 but the bars are generally structured with 3 quarter notes and 2 8ths so even as a new player I say it is a 4/4.

You've completely confused me again. There isn't a single one of the settings on the session.org which is "signed as 2/4". What do you mean? The first one is shown with a 4/4 time signature, but is actually written out in 2/4, but that can't be the one you mean, because that one has three 8th notes and two 16th notes. I'm baffled ...

Well, this is interesting. Perhaps the mistake has been corrected. The version I printed some while ago is the second. As we both see it is in 4/4 But the same tune on my printed page is 2/4.

Phew! That's a relief. At least that makes sense. I was getting really confused there!

Out of interest, I'm not keen on that scale run down in bars 4, 7, 12 and 15. I've never heard anyone play it like that. My main objection to that scale is that it wrecks the mode of the tune, which, to my mind at least, has always been firmly in a gapped mode on D, so with no F natural or F sharp - no F at all.

Now, a bit like with the last tune, are you playing it as written in those dots, on a D whistle? Because I'll bet that, if so, you're playing F sharps rather than naturals on that scale run down. If so, that's really not the tune.

[Michael w6]

@Ben - Preface: I previously posted reply using the quote function but when I clicked "submit" I got a message I had quoted three times. I don't know what happened with that and don't see that post on the thread. Odd.

You asked if I'm playing the dots as noted and if I'm using a D whistle. Yes to both. The descending run you mention sounds fine to me. Maybe this is unfamiliarity with the tune. But I quite like the setting cited. I found some other setting in different keys and higher pitches which I like much less. the lower pitches just seem to suit the tune better.

Post Script: I'm getting a strange split page. The page I'm typing this response on and below it the pages of the rest of the thread and this can be scrolled through. Anyone else seeing this or is it some glitch on my PC?

[benhall.1]

You asked if I'm playing the dots as noted and if I'm using a D whistle. Yes to both.

Here's the thing. I guarantee that you're not playing the tune as notated. I am well nigh positive that you're playing an F# in that scale run down. You're not playing any note by half-holing it, are you? If the answer to that is no, you're simply playing the tune wrong. I don't like that scale run down in any case, but, as written, with an F natural, it's close to impossible on a D whistle, so, at your stage of learning, I can't believe that you're actually playing it like that. In which case, you're not playing the tune. That's a shame, because it's a really nice tune, and, played the way it's supposed to be, is really quite easy on a D whistle.

Post Script: I'm getting a strange split page. The page I'm typing this response on and below it the pages of the rest of the thread and this can be scrolled through. Anyone else seeing this or is it some glitch on my PC?

That sounds like the normal screen to me. I can't imagine what you've been seeing before if you were seeing something different.

[Michael w6]

You asked if I'm playing the dots as noted and if I'm using a D whistle. Yes to both.

Here's the thing. I guarantee that you're not playing the tune as notated. I am well nigh positive that you're playing an F# in that scale run down. You're not playing any note by half-holing it, are you? If the answer to that is no, you're simply playing the tune wrong. I don't like that scale run down in any case, but, as written, with an F natural, it's close to impossible on a D whistle, so, at your stage of learning, I can't believe that you're actually playing it like that. In which case, you're not playing the tune. That's a shame, because it's a really nice tune, and, played the way it's supposed to be, is really quite easy on a D whistle.

Post Script: I'm getting a strange split page. The page I'm typing this response on and below it the pages of the rest of the thread and this can be scrolled through. Anyone else seeing this or is it some glitch on my PC?

That sounds like the normal screen to me. I can't imagine what you've been seeing before if you were seeing something different.

No, I'm not half holing to get an F nat. I suppose the tune sounds fine to me with the F sharp because this is the way I've learned it and accustomed to hearing it. If you have a more accurate dots would you post it? Or are you familiar with the version in Robin Williamson's book?

[benhall.1]

No, I'm not half holing to get an F nat. I suppose the tune sounds fine to me with the F sharp because this is the way I've learned it and accustomed to hearing it.

The thing is, this isn't the only time you've done that. You did it with Jump at the Sun as well, where you took dots notated in D minor and played the note names on a D whistle, but without half-holing, producing something only very vaguely connected with the actual tune. You can't do that on whistle and expect to produce the tune you're aiming for. So I would strongly suggest that you get out of that habit. Your best bet would be to learn any new tune that you want to play by ear, and not look at dots at all. They're just confusing you, and you're not learning the tunes.

If you have a more accurate dots would you post it? Or are you familiar with the version in Robin Williamson's book?

I don't know the version in Robin Williamson's book. I think I might have had his book at one time, but I can't put my hands on it now. But actually version 1 on the session.org is perfectly playable, and not too bad, if you ignore the time signature - just pretend it says 2/4. Make sure that you do not play a C# at any point in the piece - they must be C naturals - all of them - played either by half-holing or by cross-fingering, usually like this: OXX OOO.

[david_h]

Robin Williamson's book has in it A mixolidian. No sure if that helps or confuses further. He has different run down in bars 4 and 12. He says "It goes firmly, at a good walking pace"

[benhall.1]

Robin Williamson's book has in it A mixolidian. No sure if that helps or confuses further, (and he has different run down in bars 4 and 12)

He presumably doesn't have any C#s in that, does he?

[david_h]

Sorry, I edited. He has C# in bars 7 and 15. Filled in gaps like that is not to my taste.

For what it's worth, what I have in my head as a 'default setting' came from Brother Steve - dots and the two parts in separate mp3 files here: https://www.rogermillington.com/siamsa/ ... /cuts.html

Except I think the folks I've played it with do it in D mixolydian (with no Fs of any sort) as in the first setting on the session. See setting #8 https://thesession.org/tunes/2082#setting37965 for corrected note lengths.

[benhall.1]

Sorry, I edited. He has C# in bars 7 and 15. Filled in gaps like that is not to my taste.

Can you post it? I'm not quite imagining how it might go ...

[quote=""david_h"]For what it's worth, what I have in my head as a 'default setting' came from Brother Steve - dots and the two parts in separate mp3 files here: https://www.rogermillington.com/siamsa/ ... /cuts.html[/quote]
That's basically the same as Version 1 on the session.org, only on a tonal centre of E rather than D.

Except I think the folks I've played it with do it in D mixolydian (with no Fs of any sort) as in the first setting on the session. See setting #8 https://thesession.org/tunes/2082#setting37965 for corrected note lengths.

As I say, basically the same as Brother Steve's, just down a tone. By the way, I wouldn't describe that as "D mixolydian" at all. Because it's in a gapped mode, it doesn't remotely sound major. That's why, to me, the inclusion of any sharpened third - in this case, F# - sounds so jarring.

[david_h]

Robin Williamson's setting, transposed down to fit the context of the discussion.

X:1
T:The Chanter's Song
Z: after Robin Williamson, The Penny Whistle Book (where it is set in A mixolidian)
M:4/4
L:1/8
K:Dmix
D2D2 A2GE|D2D2 {d}c2Bc|d2A2 A2GE|c2Bd cAGE|
D2D2 A2GE|D2AB {d}c2Bc|d2A2 AFGE|D4 {E}D4:|
|:A2>B2 {d}c2Bd|AGAB {d}c2Bc|d2A2 A2GE|c2Bd cAGE|
D2D2 A2GE|D2D2 {d}c2Bc|d2A2 AFGE|D4 D4:|

By the way, I wouldn't describe that as "D mixolydian" at all. Because it's in a gapped mode, it doesn't remotely sound major. That's why, to me, the inclusion of any sharpened third - in this case, F# - sounds so jarring.

My test with these things is to see if I can insert the missing note as a passing note without it jarring my sensibilities; usually it does. To my ear the F# sounds OK but not needed. F natural sounds awful. What jars is extending the range up to the higher D, but it may just be a matter of not being used to it.

[benhall.1]

By the way, I wouldn't describe that as "D mixolydian" at all. Because it's in a gapped mode, it doesn't remotely sound major. That's why, to me, the inclusion of any sharpened third - in this case, F# - sounds so jarring.

My test with these things is to see if I can insert the missing note as a passing note without it jarring my sensibilities; usually it does. To my ear the F# sounds OK but not needed. F natural sounds awful. What jars is extending the range up to the higher D, but it may just be a matter of not being used to it.

I don't really like having an F natural or an F# in there, but, to my ears, the F# is even worse than the F natural - mind, I wouldn't have that pattern of notes at all. Going up to the high d doesn't bother me, funnily enough. In fact, I rather like to put a triplet Bcd at that place.

[Mr.Gumby]

Just a few thoughts, Song of the chanter, as I learned it, was first tune I got from the Armagh Piper's tutor for the pipes. It was the version Willie Clancy recorded (on the old EP with Michael Gorman). I have never known anything other.

Looking just now for a recorded version I ended up listening to Brian Vallely (who wrote the tutor I mentioned), only to find he also uses that AFGE D. Let's say, I wouldn't think of doing that. Willie's version doesn't seem to be readily online.

Cross posted. FWIW, FG|A2 AB c2 Bc|AGAB c2 Bc| d2 A2 A2 GE|c2 Bc A2----- is how I know it. Touching the high d in the previous version sounds, well, odd in comparison. But perhaps it depends on what you're used to.