Modifying tin whistle for pipe training

The Ultimate On-Line Whistle Community. If you find one more ultimater, let us know.
Post Reply
MisterTed
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2020 5:21 am
antispam: No
Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
Tell us something.: I play whistle and NSPs. I want to play Uilleann pipes. I am Irish and live in UK. My heroes are all pipers

Modifying tin whistle for pipe training

Post by MisterTed »

I play Northumbrian pipes. I used to play whistle. I would like to modify a tin whistle with a low little finger hole and a left-hand back thumb hole in order to train myself for closed fingering. I was planning to bung up the bottom of the neo-chanter in addition.

Is this even possible? Would it work? Has anyone ever done this? (A practice chanter, if you will)
User avatar
Steve Bliven
Posts: 2973
Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2004 2:06 pm
antispam: No
Location: Dartmouth, Massachusetts, USA

Re: Modifying tin whistle for pipe training

Post by Steve Bliven »

There are examples of whistles designed to mimic Loud Highland Pipe chanters (e.g., Carbony). Haven't seen one for NSP, perhaps because that's more of a niche market.

Best wishes and stay safe.

Steve
Live your life so that, if it was a book, Florida would ban it.
Ronk
Posts: 43
Joined: Sun Oct 23, 2005 12:57 pm
antispam: No
Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
Tell us something.: I enjoy playing flutes & whistles. C&F is a great place to learn more about both. It is interesting to find out more about makers, history, techniques and making music with these instruments.
Location: Wisconsin

Re: Modifying tin whistle for pipe training

Post by Ronk »

Elf Song whistles make whilstles with GHP fingering and whistles using the Galician fingering system utilizing a left hand thumb hole as well as a 7th hole for the right hand pinky. I have one of the latter if you may be interested.
Tunborough
Posts: 1419
Joined: Sun Dec 05, 2010 2:59 pm
antispam: No
Please enter the next number in sequence: 10
Location: Southwestern Ontario

Re: Modifying tin whistle for pipe training

Post by Tunborough »

You can buy or make whistles that work with closed fingering, but I doubt they will work over much more than an octave. You won't be able to modify a stock whistle to be in tune with closed fingering.
User avatar
RoberTunes
Posts: 326
Joined: Tue Oct 01, 2019 3:33 pm
antispam: No
Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
Tell us something.: I am a flute, guitar, keyboard + whistle player learning about quality whistles, musical possibilities and playing techniques. I've recorded a CD of my own music and am creating music for kids.
Location: North America

Re: Modifying tin whistle for pipe training

Post by RoberTunes »

You can add holes to a whistle if they are the right position and size. What issues that might arise with ease of dealing with each octave, is a matter for R&D that is beyond my experience. However, some have gone ahead and are selling them:

Bracker Whistles has whistles with 6, 7, 8 and 9-holes, to allow more chromatic or modal playing of the Irish whistle. I have never looked at a chanter, so I don't know if this will help that, but just adding two more holes/notes to a regular 6-hole whistle could be done. I'd highly advise starting with a common inexpensive model to try it on, in case you mess up the first one while deciding on method.

https://music.bracker.uk/Whistles/Nine- ... stles.html
User avatar
oleorezinator
Posts: 1625
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2003 1:21 am
antispam: No
Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
Tell us something.: I love uilleann pipes I love tin whistles I love flutes I love irish music I love concertinas I love bodhrans
Location: Behind the anthracite and shale curtain.

Re: Modifying tin whistle for pipe training

Post by oleorezinator »

Why bother? Expand yer scope
and learn the whistle as just that.
For an nsp practice chanter, buy
the cheapest hp practice chanter
that you can find, plug the bottom hole
and bingo, nsp practice chanter!
Information is not knowledge.
Knowledge is not wisdom.
Wisdom is not truth.
Truth is not beauty. Beauty is not love.
Love is not music. Music is the best.
- Frank Zappa
User avatar
pancelticpiper
Posts: 5298
Joined: Mon Jul 10, 2006 7:25 am
antispam: No
Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
Tell us something.: Playing Scottish and Irish music in California for 45 years.
These days many discussions are migrating to Facebook but I prefer the online chat forum format.
Location: WV to the OC

Re: Modifying tin whistle for pipe training

Post by pancelticpiper »

The physics of each sort of instrument work so differently, for example:

1 Bagpipe chanter with narrow cylindrical/straight/parallel bore (NSP, SSP, Highland practice chanter)

2 Bagpipe chanter with conical/tapered bore (Highland pipes, Border pipes)

3 Flute or whistle

Closed fingering works well with #1, because for some reason this sort of instrument isn't much affected by whether fingerholes beneath the one from which the note is emitting are open or closed.

So, you can finger a note

x xoo oooo (open)
x xox xxxx (closed)

or any other variation, and the note will sound pretty much the same.

Number 2 and 3 aren't like that; the note emitting from a hole is affected by the whether lower holes are open or closed.

You can test it with a whistle:

xoo ooo (open, you get the true note)
xox xxx (closed, the note is feeble, and very flat)

Even worse is

ooo ooo (open, the true note)
oxx xxx (closed, the open hole functions as an octave vent, and you don't get the true note at all)

What this means is that to make a closed-fingering whistle means reconfiguring all the holes- as you go up the scale the holes have to get bigger, and be placed further higher than their normal locations, to compensate for the flattening effect of having the other holes closed.

BTW I'm a Highland piper and those "Highland" whistles are worthless IMHO. You can't play Highland ornaments on them because, once again, the physics of whistles and chanters are so different.

Now, Highland fingering is not closed fingering like the Northumbrian pipes. The Highland pipes use partially closed fingering, meaning that most of the notes will work on whistle too. It's why a "Highland" whistle is mostly all right, it's just "E" that has the most-closed fingering

x xxo xxxo

which is why "Highland" whistles have to enormously enlarge that hole.

For what purpose I have no idea. A whistle is never going to be a Highland pipe, and visa versa. Each instrument has its own fingering system, ornament system, style, and repertoire uniquely suited to it.
Richard Cook
c1980 Quinn uilleann pipes
1945 Starck Highland pipes
Goldie Low D whistle
MisterTed
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2020 5:21 am
antispam: No
Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
Tell us something.: I play whistle and NSPs. I want to play Uilleann pipes. I am Irish and live in UK. My heroes are all pipers

Re: Modifying tin whistle for pipe training

Post by MisterTed »

Thanks to all. I realise that it is more complicated than I thought. The hole sizes and spacing is different with NSPs and whistle. Maybe I should practice a bit harder! No shortcuts.
User avatar
Sedi
Posts: 993
Joined: Sun May 01, 2016 6:54 am
antispam: No
Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
Tell us something.: Practice, practice, practice. You're never too old to learn.
Keep on fluting.
---u---o-o-o--o-o-o--
-----------------------

Re: Modifying tin whistle for pipe training

Post by Sedi »

Despite the differences in the mechanics and the fact that some things simply don't work on a "whistle chanter" -- this guy sounds pretty cool on the Carbony GHP whistle. (But I heard the Elfsong piper's whistle is also very good):
https://youtu.be/LRBToV9YirM
Post Reply