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 Post subject: Re: Lir whistle
PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2020 11:34 am 
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The store is Collins music btw. And on their youtube channel they do indeed claim it is produced in Ireland. Sooo -- my suspicions might be wrong. But the whistle still smells slightly strange :D .


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 Post subject: Re: Lir whistle
PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2020 11:37 am 
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The same was, rightly, said of the Killarney when it launched, rip off, copycats riding on the back of the demand for Sindts and all that. So why fault the people behind Lir for doing exactly the same.

My initial thought of the Killarney was that it was messy, and the first two I got were poorly finished but played well and they were quite possibly buying tubes from Feadóg or the same supplier as Feadóg Teo. I don't know, maybe they were, maybe they weren't. I think they have changed tube spec since. They came up with a nice enough whistle. So I don't really care an awful lot how they do it. And if the people behind Lir are doing the same, more power to them.

John Sindt is working away through his waiting list.

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 Post subject: Re: Lir whistle
PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2020 11:42 am 
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Oh, I'm not really holding the Sindt-design against them (or I wouldn't have bought one), more the fact that I expected a better quality control for the price. But they might well refine the design with time. And it already plays better than a Killarney in my opinion. I will repair mine with a bit of PVC-tubing and maybe fix the windway cover with a nice brass screw while I am at it. Shouldn't be much of an effort. I might replace the fipple-plug, too. But I don't know when I find the time. At the moment I am more into flute-making.


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 Post subject: Re: Lir whistle
PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2020 11:47 am 
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I was still replyi8ng to Robertunes, you crossposted in between.


But while we're here:

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Or is it a coincidence that Phil Hardy started kerrywhistles exactly 25 yrs after Overton came up with that design


Hardy was one of Bernard Overton's apprentices and both he and Colin Goldie were licensed to use the design and Overton name for their whistles. So not a coincidence.

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 Post subject: Re: Lir whistle
PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2020 12:02 pm 
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I thought only Colin was licensed to use the name. So I guess Phil had to wait a bit. BTW -- not that anyone thinks I want to badmouth Phil too, while I am at it :D. I have 6 of his whistles (mezzo C, D, alto F, low D V4, V5 and a Thunderbird) and they are among my favourites.


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 Post subject: Re: Lir whistle
PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2020 12:05 pm 
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Sedi wrote:
I thought only Colin was licensed to use the name. So I guess Phil had to wait a bit.


Best to do a forum search to get the details, gory or otherwise. I am not up to speed with the finer detail of all that.

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 Post subject: Re: Lir whistle
PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2020 1:35 pm 
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I too was surprised by the spare look of the website, like it had been thrown up quickly to get sales going. "Lir" I assume comes from the Children of Lir of Irish myth, an attempt to link the whistle more closely to Ireland and give it more plausibility as a "made in Ireland" whistle. I hope you are wrong about the possible Chinese origin of the whistle; I have had recent bad experiences with products I purchased that later proved to have come from China and to be of shoddy manufacture and deceptively advertised. I appreciate all the input so far and hope that more people who may have purchased one of these whistles will give us their insights.


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 Post subject: Re: Lir whistle
PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2020 1:45 pm 
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pancelticpiper wrote:
Their site says

The Lír whistle is inspired by nearly a thousand years of traditional Celtic flutes and whistles.

Funny, from the photo it looks like it was inspired by five years of Killarneys.

LOL thats friggen great :thumbsup: i was crying on that one for sure :thumbsup:,, whoever it was playing the video, just ruined it , way to fast and uncontrolled, , its like he had a time limit

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 Post subject: Re: Lir whistle
PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2020 4:29 am 
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Yes good work can come out of China and poor work can come out of Ireland, sure, but the Irish Concertina Company says "Handcrafted in Dublin" on its website, and also "made in Ireland, shipped worldwide." Maybe their beginner models are made in China?

It's silly really, I'll admit. For years guitar players would make a big flag-waving deal out of USA-made Fender guitars from the factory in Fullerton, CA; and they'd disparage the less expensive fender guitars made in Mexico. But then if you looked at the employees of the fender factory in its "golden age," they were almost all Mexican or Mexican-American.

Sentimentally, I like the idea of "made in Ireland:" I think of it as honoring the tradition that I'm working at. But in reality the people making the "made in Ireland" instruments are likely to be from Poland or from Africa in modern Ireland, and good for them and good for Ireland.


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 Post subject: Re: Lir whistle
PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2020 5:40 am 
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Here in the USA things can get vague as to things' origins but I had read that within the EU there were strict rules, called Protected Designation Of Origin.

Do those rules only apply to foodstuffs?

Can somebody claim "Irish Made" in the EU if it isn't?

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 Post subject: Re: Lir whistle
PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2020 5:49 am 
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Sedi wrote:
I thought only Colin was licensed to use the name.


There was a period when Overton Whistles were being made simultaneously by Bernard Overton, Phil Hardy, and Colin Goldie. Sometimes it's not easy to know who made what whistles, though at some point Goldie started signing his on the inside of the bell (I have an Overton like that).

I think it's why Overtons can vary so much. I've bought old Overtons over the years that had strange tuning problems, had strange fingerhole locations, probably bespoke.

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 Post subject: Re: Lir whistle
PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2020 5:51 am 
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Sedi wrote:
Or Sindt.


Lir and Killarney proud, Sindt flush.

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 Post subject: Re: Lir whistle
PostPosted: Sat Apr 25, 2020 1:02 am 
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pancelticpiper wrote:
Here in the USA things can get vague as to things' origins but I had read that within the EU there were strict rules, called Protected Designation Of Origin.

Do those rules only apply to foodstuffs?

Can somebody claim "Irish Made" in the EU if it isn't?

"Protected designation of origin" only applies to "agricultural products and foodstuffs". It is one of three such schemes for EU agricultural goods and foodstuffs. I can't work out what an agricultural product might be if it isn't a foodstuff.

There are separate rules on country of origin which apply to goods of many different types (not just foodstuffs) imported into the EU or exported from the EU. I really thought I understood the basis behind those rules, although the complexity involved in deciding what type of goods are being dealt with and therefore which particular rules apply is mindblowing. However, looking at it again, it turns out that I don't even understand the basics. It's horrendously complex. And I'm an accountant - I really thought I understood this.

So, in answer to your question, I'm not sure, for goods, including foodstuffs, which don't come under one of the three EU schemes relating to the designation of origin, that anyone really has a clear answer. It's probably at least as vague as in the States. At any rate, it's too complex for most of us to work out (unless anyone can prove me wrong?).

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 Post subject: Re: Lir whistle
PostPosted: Sat Apr 25, 2020 4:00 am 
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Agricultural products not foodstuffs would probably include cotton and linen as well as natural dyes, like indigo, and seed oils not intended for consumption, like flax for linseed oil. Presumably wool might be classed as an agricultural product.

When we visited the Aran Islands it was hard to miss the skewed ratio of Aran sweaters for sale to actual sheep grazing. Lots of sweater, few sheep! :)

To be fair we didn't visit all the islands. But it would be interesting to see what legal encumbrances apply to "aran island" wool products.


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 Post subject: Re: Lir whistle
PostPosted: Sat Apr 25, 2020 4:15 am 
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Quote:
To be fair we didn't visit all the islands. But it would be interesting to see what legal encumbrances apply to "aran island" wool products.


'Aran' is now probably more a reference of the pattern/type than the location they're made in. There used to be a factory around here, big machines working away at producing 'hand knits' :lol:

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