Chiff and Fipple Forums
http://forums.chiffandfipple.com/

New Low D - tuneable but flat when warm and slide is all in
http://forums.chiffandfipple.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=110113
Page 1 of 3

Author:  qnaza [ Sat Feb 22, 2020 2:04 pm ]
Post subject:  New Low D - tuneable but flat when warm and slide is all in

Hi all

Today I received a new tuneable low D whistle by mail which, even after warming up, is consistently flat, even when the slide is all the way in. I should note that the tuning across the whistle is very good, no worries there, it's just that, with the tuning slide all the way in, and fully warmed up, it is consistently flat of 440 and can't go any sharper since the slide is already all the way in. All it can do is go even more flat. Playing it cold with the slide all the way in, it's even more flat, and the tuner sees the B as closer to B-flat, and A closer to A-flat, and so on.

As I see it, the point of a tuneable whistle is that, at the tuning slide's mid-point, it allows for playing at 440, and one can then go up or down from there, allowing for more flexibility when playing with others in different atmospheric conditions. I should add that I'm deliberately not naming the maker because I don't want to cause any negativity for them, as I've still to hear back from them, having emailed his morning to express my concerns about the whistle. As it stands, I've told them I'd like to return it, and am considering asking for a refund, not replacement, but am open to their thoughts or ideas.

Your thoughts?

Author:  MichaelLoos [ Sat Feb 22, 2020 2:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New Low D - tuneable but flat when warm and slide is all

Although asking for refund would probably legitimate in your position, I still would give the maker a chance to solve the problem - it happens more often than you might think that such problems (overall flat/sharp while tuning in itself is fine) are due to a wrongly calibrated tuner while doing the final voicing/tuning.
IMO, a tuneable whistle should be tuneable at least 6 Hz below as well as above 440 without problems at room temperature - that's about as much as it can go up or down in temperatures between 0° and 40°, which are the extremes of what I would play in.

Author:  qnaza [ Sat Feb 22, 2020 3:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New Low D - tuneable but flat when warm and slide is all

Cheers for that, very useful.

Author:  pancelticpiper [ Sat Feb 22, 2020 4:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New Low D - tuneable but flat when warm and slide is all

It's not all that uncommon to come across ITM instruments (whistles, flutes, uilleann chanters) with strange tuning issues.

I've bought and sold, over the years, probably 20 Irish flutes and 50 whistles.

I've seen an amazing variety of tuning problems- there's no pattern except for the 2nd octave of whistles to be flat.

I had an Irish flute (from a reputable maker who has made a very large number of flutes which played well in tune) which was very much like your whistle, in tune to itself but over a quartertone flat when the headjoint was pushed all the way in.

This maker rarely put tuning slides on his flutes, rather they were made to be at A=440 with the headjoint pulled out around a quarter-inch, which gives adequate leeway for most situations.

For whatever reason this flute was very flat with the headjoint all the way in, so I sent it back to the maker, who re-cut and chopped the tenon to allow the flute to play at A=440. The result was a great flute that was right in tune!

So likewise in your case the maker can probably alter the tenon and/or socket to fix the issue.

Author:  belayatron [ Thu Feb 27, 2020 5:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: New Low D - tuneable but flat when warm and slide is all

Just if of use, I had exactly the same issue (a chieftain v5 Low D), and was told it was the style of that particular whistle (it's supposedly a hard blower you attack, similar to some pipes).
When I do blow much harder/push against the back-pressure, it does seem to go in tune, but personally I don't like this style of playing and no longer use it.

It might be worth temporarily trying a different blowing style just to see if it's the particular whistle type you have?

Author:  Sedi [ Thu Feb 27, 2020 1:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New Low D - tuneable but flat when warm and slide is all

Interesting. My V5 blows rather easily (but it does have a slightly higher backpressure than the V4) and has not much leeway to blow any harder to "blow it in tune" or you simply flip to the second octave. It is also very well in tune. Sounds like something was wrong with yours.

Author:  cavefish [ Tue Mar 03, 2020 11:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: New Low D - tuneable but flat when warm and slide is all

there is something wrong if you cant get any sharp , although i love flat flutes there should be a little sharp in there during the slide, maybe you just blow soft, :D,, i had a sweet ass V3 low F i just sold , should of kept it but wanted another flute,, the V3s i think were softer in sound and easier to play

Author:  Sedi [ Tue Mar 03, 2020 12:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New Low D - tuneable but flat when warm and slide is all

The V5 is made by kerrywhistles owned by Phil Hardy. They also make the "Thunderbird" whistles.

Author:  cavefish [ Tue Mar 03, 2020 1:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New Low D - tuneable but flat when warm and slide is all

pancelticpiper wrote:
It's not all that uncommon to come across ITM instruments (whistles, flutes, uilleann chanters) with strange tuning issues.

I've bought and sold, over the years, probably 20 Irish flutes and 50 whistles.

I've seen an amazing variety of tuning problems- there's no pattern except for the 2nd octave of whistles to be flat.

I had an Irish flute (from a reputable maker who has made a very large number of flutes which played well in tune) which was very much like your whistle, in tune to itself but over a quartertone flat when the headjoint was pushed all the way in.

This maker rarely put tuning slides on his flutes, rather they were made to be at A=440 with the headjoint pulled out around a quarter-inch, which gives adequate leeway for most situations.

For whatever reason this flute was very flat with the headjoint all the way in, so I sent it back to the maker, who re-cut and chopped the tenon to allow the flute to play at A=440. The result was a great flute that was right in tune!

So likewise in your case the maker can probably alter the tenon and/or socket to fix the issue.

years ago i had a beautiful flute made by a reputable maker, but thought the tuning was just crap, --sold it as is-- come to find out it was 432hz, i sold it before i found out ,,,, dammm was i pissed i like 432 tuning

Author:  benhall.1 [ Tue Mar 03, 2020 2:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New Low D - tuneable but flat when warm and slide is all

cavefish wrote:
years ago i had a beautiful flute made by a reputable maker, but thought the tuning was just crap, --sold it as is-- come to find out it was 432hz, i sold it before i found out ,,,, dammm was i pissed i love 432 tuning

That makes no sense to me. How can you say you love 432 tuning when, the time you had it, you disliked it enough to sell the flute?

Author:  cavefish [ Tue Mar 03, 2020 3:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New Low D - tuneable but flat when warm and slide is all

benhall.1 wrote:
cavefish wrote:
years ago i had a beautiful flute made by a reputable maker, but thought the tuning was just crap, --sold it as is-- come to find out it was 432hz, i sold it before i found out ,,,, dammm was i pissed i love 432 tuning

That makes no sense to me. How can you say you love 432 tuning when, the time you had it, you disliked it enough to sell the flute?
at the time i did not know about 432 tuning, i just thought it was an older flute tuned lousy, i found out Later it was 432, i thought i said that above :boggle: as far as 432hz tuning goes i like it in NAF flutes, which i was making years ago too,, the flute would have been ok for me too because i dont play sessions, as far as having a 432hz tuning in a flute Now, no point,
but there are slow downers/pitch converter programs now which i use for D flute songs i want in F ,

Author:  Peter Duggan [ Tue Mar 03, 2020 5:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New Low D - tuneable but flat when warm and slide is all

How can anyone 'love' 432 tuning when it's never been a standard but is simply some fallacious ideal beloved by purveyors of mumbo jumbo and the gullible?

Author:  cavefish [ Tue Mar 03, 2020 5:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New Low D - tuneable but flat when warm and slide is all

Peter Duggan wrote:
How can anyone 'love' 432 tuning when it's never been a standard but is simply some fallacious ideal beloved by purveyors of mumbo jumbo and the gullible?

dammmm, is this just cut down day at the races,, maybe love aint the right word, , but i like lowered tuning on some instruments, it does sound and feel different to the ears, just like too sharp and too flat---its distinguishes itself--- , whether its a standard dont mean sh*t , its just a tuning , a tuned down thing ,
why is this even getting all the negativity, it was just a story of a flute that was tuned in 432hz, someone liked it at some time and a very high profile maker made it for him/her , must not have been that bad, because the flute was made around 1990s so 432hz must have been something to some people ,, holy clams people take the negative comments somewhere else :D i changed the word to"like" :thumbsup:
did this cause
Cognitive dissonance

Author:  Peter Duggan [ Tue Mar 03, 2020 6:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New Low D - tuneable but flat when warm and slide is all

cavefish wrote:
so 432hz must have been something to some people

I'm already well aware of that!

Quote:
holy clams people take the negative comments somewhere else

Why? To keep opinions unquestioned and suppress debate?

Quote:
did this cause
Cognitive dissonance

No.

Author:  cavefish [ Tue Mar 03, 2020 6:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New Low D - tuneable but flat when warm and slide is all

Peter Duggan wrote:
cavefish wrote:
so 432hz must have been something to some people

I'm already well aware of that!

Quote:
holy clams people take the negative comments somewhere else

Why? To keep opinions unquestioned and suppress debate?

Quote:
did this cause
Cognitive dissonance

No.

so the real motive was an unsupressed debate,, hmmmmm :boggle: well i dont think this topic was intended for a debate, nor was my little story of a missed flute , just advice would have been sufficiant , sooooooooo :poke: i know you had to look up Cognitive dissonance :D :D
the story ends well. i have a Millyard flute and a thompson, another one on the way , and some sweet whistles in the making :thumbsup:

Page 1 of 3 All times are UTC - 6 hours
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
https://www.phpbb.com/