New Low D - tuneable but flat when warm and slide is all in

The Ultimate On-Line Whistle Community. If you find one more ultimater, let us know.
qnaza
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Feb 09, 2020 4:57 am
antispam: No
Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
Tell us something.: I'm a guitarist and aspirant low whistle player looking to connect with others. I'm interested in getting advice, reviews on whistles, and finding sessions and teachers in my area.

New Low D - tuneable but flat when warm and slide is all in

Post by qnaza »

Hi all

Today I received a new tuneable low D whistle by mail which, even after warming up, is consistently flat, even when the slide is all the way in. I should note that the tuning across the whistle is very good, no worries there, it's just that, with the tuning slide all the way in, and fully warmed up, it is consistently flat of 440 and can't go any sharper since the slide is already all the way in. All it can do is go even more flat. Playing it cold with the slide all the way in, it's even more flat, and the tuner sees the B as closer to B-flat, and A closer to A-flat, and so on.

As I see it, the point of a tuneable whistle is that, at the tuning slide's mid-point, it allows for playing at 440, and one can then go up or down from there, allowing for more flexibility when playing with others in different atmospheric conditions. I should add that I'm deliberately not naming the maker because I don't want to cause any negativity for them, as I've still to hear back from them, having emailed his morning to express my concerns about the whistle. As it stands, I've told them I'd like to return it, and am considering asking for a refund, not replacement, but am open to their thoughts or ideas.

Your thoughts?
User avatar
MichaelLoos
Posts: 675
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2007 2:53 am
antispam: No
Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
Tell us something.: I'm here because I just wanted to change my location... but it turns out much more complicated than I thought. Do I already have the 100 required characters?
Location: Klietz, Germany

Re: New Low D - tuneable but flat when warm and slide is all

Post by MichaelLoos »

Although asking for refund would probably legitimate in your position, I still would give the maker a chance to solve the problem - it happens more often than you might think that such problems (overall flat/sharp while tuning in itself is fine) are due to a wrongly calibrated tuner while doing the final voicing/tuning.
IMO, a tuneable whistle should be tuneable at least 6 Hz below as well as above 440 without problems at room temperature - that's about as much as it can go up or down in temperatures between 0° and 40°, which are the extremes of what I would play in.
qnaza
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Feb 09, 2020 4:57 am
antispam: No
Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
Tell us something.: I'm a guitarist and aspirant low whistle player looking to connect with others. I'm interested in getting advice, reviews on whistles, and finding sessions and teachers in my area.

Re: New Low D - tuneable but flat when warm and slide is all

Post by qnaza »

Cheers for that, very useful.
User avatar
pancelticpiper
Posts: 5298
Joined: Mon Jul 10, 2006 7:25 am
antispam: No
Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
Tell us something.: Playing Scottish and Irish music in California for 45 years.
These days many discussions are migrating to Facebook but I prefer the online chat forum format.
Location: WV to the OC

Re: New Low D - tuneable but flat when warm and slide is all

Post by pancelticpiper »

It's not all that uncommon to come across ITM instruments (whistles, flutes, uilleann chanters) with strange tuning issues.

I've bought and sold, over the years, probably 20 Irish flutes and 50 whistles.

I've seen an amazing variety of tuning problems- there's no pattern except for the 2nd octave of whistles to be flat.

I had an Irish flute (from a reputable maker who has made a very large number of flutes which played well in tune) which was very much like your whistle, in tune to itself but over a quartertone flat when the headjoint was pushed all the way in.

This maker rarely put tuning slides on his flutes, rather they were made to be at A=440 with the headjoint pulled out around a quarter-inch, which gives adequate leeway for most situations.

For whatever reason this flute was very flat with the headjoint all the way in, so I sent it back to the maker, who re-cut and chopped the tenon to allow the flute to play at A=440. The result was a great flute that was right in tune!

So likewise in your case the maker can probably alter the tenon and/or socket to fix the issue.
Richard Cook
c1980 Quinn uilleann pipes
1945 Starck Highland pipes
Goldie Low D whistle
belayatron
Posts: 17
Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2020 11:07 am
antispam: No
Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
Tell us something.: Been learning the tin whistle for just under 2 years (as of Jan 2020) and wanting to learn more! Currently own about 11 High D whistles, 2 Low Ds, 2 Flutes and favourite tune is probably off to California with a general love of Irish Hornpipes.

Re: New Low D - tuneable but flat when warm and slide is all

Post by belayatron »

Just if of use, I had exactly the same issue (a chieftain v5 Low D), and was told it was the style of that particular whistle (it's supposedly a hard blower you attack, similar to some pipes).
When I do blow much harder/push against the back-pressure, it does seem to go in tune, but personally I don't like this style of playing and no longer use it.

It might be worth temporarily trying a different blowing style just to see if it's the particular whistle type you have?
User avatar
Sedi
Posts: 993
Joined: Sun May 01, 2016 6:54 am
antispam: No
Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
Tell us something.: Practice, practice, practice. You're never too old to learn.
Keep on fluting.
---u---o-o-o--o-o-o--
-----------------------

Re: New Low D - tuneable but flat when warm and slide is all

Post by Sedi »

Interesting. My V5 blows rather easily (but it does have a slightly higher backpressure than the V4) and has not much leeway to blow any harder to "blow it in tune" or you simply flip to the second octave. It is also very well in tune. Sounds like something was wrong with yours.
User avatar
cavefish
Posts: 1016
Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2005 4:22 am
antispam: No
Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
Tell us something.: been out of it for awhile and decided to start back up on the flute and whistle , been doing NAFs and saxophones
Location: San Pedro

Re: New Low D - tuneable but flat when warm and slide is all

Post by cavefish »

there is something wrong if you cant get any sharp , although i love flat flutes there should be a little sharp in there during the slide, maybe you just blow soft, :D,, i had a sweet ass V3 low F i just sold , should of kept it but wanted another flute,, the V3s i think were softer in sound and easier to play
Last edited by cavefish on Tue Mar 03, 2020 1:09 pm, edited 4 times in total.
Choose you this day, whom ye shall serve
User avatar
Sedi
Posts: 993
Joined: Sun May 01, 2016 6:54 am
antispam: No
Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
Tell us something.: Practice, practice, practice. You're never too old to learn.
Keep on fluting.
---u---o-o-o--o-o-o--
-----------------------

Re: New Low D - tuneable but flat when warm and slide is all

Post by Sedi »

The V5 is made by kerrywhistles owned by Phil Hardy. They also make the "Thunderbird" whistles.
User avatar
cavefish
Posts: 1016
Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2005 4:22 am
antispam: No
Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
Tell us something.: been out of it for awhile and decided to start back up on the flute and whistle , been doing NAFs and saxophones
Location: San Pedro

Re: New Low D - tuneable but flat when warm and slide is all

Post by cavefish »

pancelticpiper wrote:It's not all that uncommon to come across ITM instruments (whistles, flutes, uilleann chanters) with strange tuning issues.

I've bought and sold, over the years, probably 20 Irish flutes and 50 whistles.

I've seen an amazing variety of tuning problems- there's no pattern except for the 2nd octave of whistles to be flat.

I had an Irish flute (from a reputable maker who has made a very large number of flutes which played well in tune) which was very much like your whistle, in tune to itself but over a quartertone flat when the headjoint was pushed all the way in.

This maker rarely put tuning slides on his flutes, rather they were made to be at A=440 with the headjoint pulled out around a quarter-inch, which gives adequate leeway for most situations.

For whatever reason this flute was very flat with the headjoint all the way in, so I sent it back to the maker, who re-cut and chopped the tenon to allow the flute to play at A=440. The result was a great flute that was right in tune!

So likewise in your case the maker can probably alter the tenon and/or socket to fix the issue.
years ago i had a beautiful flute made by a reputable maker, but thought the tuning was just crap, --sold it as is-- come to find out it was 432hz, i sold it before i found out ,,,, dammm was i pissed i like 432 tuning
Last edited by cavefish on Tue Mar 03, 2020 5:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Choose you this day, whom ye shall serve
User avatar
benhall.1
Moderator
Posts: 14798
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 5:21 pm
antispam: No
Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
Tell us something.: I'm a fiddler and, latterly, a fluter. I love the flute. I wish I'd always played it. I love the whistle as well. I'm blessed in having really lovely instruments for all of my musical interests.
Location: Unimportant island off the great mainland of Europe

Re: New Low D - tuneable but flat when warm and slide is all

Post by benhall.1 »

cavefish wrote:years ago i had a beautiful flute made by a reputable maker, but thought the tuning was just crap, --sold it as is-- come to find out it was 432hz, i sold it before i found out ,,,, dammm was i pissed i love 432 tuning
That makes no sense to me. How can you say you love 432 tuning when, the time you had it, you disliked it enough to sell the flute?
User avatar
cavefish
Posts: 1016
Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2005 4:22 am
antispam: No
Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
Tell us something.: been out of it for awhile and decided to start back up on the flute and whistle , been doing NAFs and saxophones
Location: San Pedro

Re: New Low D - tuneable but flat when warm and slide is all

Post by cavefish »

benhall.1 wrote:
cavefish wrote:years ago i had a beautiful flute made by a reputable maker, but thought the tuning was just crap, --sold it as is-- come to find out it was 432hz, i sold it before i found out ,,,, dammm was i pissed i love 432 tuning
That makes no sense to me. How can you say you love 432 tuning when, the time you had it, you disliked it enough to sell the flute?
at the time i did not know about 432 tuning, i just thought it was an older flute tuned lousy, i found out Later it was 432, i thought i said that above :boggle: as far as 432hz tuning goes i like it in NAF flutes, which i was making years ago too,, the flute would have been ok for me too because i dont play sessions, as far as having a 432hz tuning in a flute Now, no point,
but there are slow downers/pitch converter programs now which i use for D flute songs i want in F ,
Choose you this day, whom ye shall serve
User avatar
Peter Duggan
Posts: 3223
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2011 5:39 pm
antispam: No
Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
Tell us something.: I'm not registering, I'm trying to edit my profile! The field “Tell us something.” is too short, a minimum of 100 characters is required.
Location: Kinlochleven
Contact:

Re: New Low D - tuneable but flat when warm and slide is all

Post by Peter Duggan »

How can anyone 'love' 432 tuning when it's never been a standard but is simply some fallacious ideal beloved by purveyors of mumbo jumbo and the gullible?
And we in dreams behold the Hebrides.

Master of nine?
User avatar
cavefish
Posts: 1016
Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2005 4:22 am
antispam: No
Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
Tell us something.: been out of it for awhile and decided to start back up on the flute and whistle , been doing NAFs and saxophones
Location: San Pedro

Re: New Low D - tuneable but flat when warm and slide is all

Post by cavefish »

Peter Duggan wrote:How can anyone 'love' 432 tuning when it's never been a standard but is simply some fallacious ideal beloved by purveyors of mumbo jumbo and the gullible?
dammmm, is this just cut down day at the races,, maybe love aint the right word, , but i like lowered tuning on some instruments, it does sound and feel different to the ears, just like too sharp and too flat---its distinguishes itself--- , whether its a standard dont mean sh*t , its just a tuning , a tuned down thing ,
why is this even getting all the negativity, it was just a story of a flute that was tuned in 432hz, someone liked it at some time and a very high profile maker made it for him/her , must not have been that bad, because the flute was made around 1990s so 432hz must have been something to some people ,, holy clams people take the negative comments somewhere else :D i changed the word to"like" :thumbsup:
did this cause
Cognitive dissonance
Choose you this day, whom ye shall serve
User avatar
Peter Duggan
Posts: 3223
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2011 5:39 pm
antispam: No
Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
Tell us something.: I'm not registering, I'm trying to edit my profile! The field “Tell us something.” is too short, a minimum of 100 characters is required.
Location: Kinlochleven
Contact:

Re: New Low D - tuneable but flat when warm and slide is all

Post by Peter Duggan »

cavefish wrote:so 432hz must have been something to some people
I'm already well aware of that!
holy clams people take the negative comments somewhere else
Why? To keep opinions unquestioned and suppress debate?
did this cause
Cognitive dissonance
No.
And we in dreams behold the Hebrides.

Master of nine?
User avatar
cavefish
Posts: 1016
Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2005 4:22 am
antispam: No
Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
Tell us something.: been out of it for awhile and decided to start back up on the flute and whistle , been doing NAFs and saxophones
Location: San Pedro

Re: New Low D - tuneable but flat when warm and slide is all

Post by cavefish »

Peter Duggan wrote:
cavefish wrote:so 432hz must have been something to some people
I'm already well aware of that!
holy clams people take the negative comments somewhere else
Why? To keep opinions unquestioned and suppress debate?
did this cause
Cognitive dissonance
No.
so the real motive was an unsupressed debate,, hmmmmm :boggle: well i dont think this topic was intended for a debate, nor was my little story of a missed flute , just advice would have been sufficiant , sooooooooo :poke: i know you had to look up Cognitive dissonance :D :D
the story ends well. i have a Millyard flute and a thompson, another one on the way , and some sweet whistles in the making :thumbsup:
Choose you this day, whom ye shall serve
Post Reply