It is currently Thu Nov 14, 2019 9:09 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 38 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
 
PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2019 10:53 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun May 01, 2016 6:54 am
Posts: 262
What are those other reason for venting it, if I might ask? Apart from sound, intonation or some stuff that is easier to play with the note vented, like the oxxxox, oxxxxx transition.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2019 11:34 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2010 11:31 am
Posts: 4929
Location: the Back of Beyond
It's about clarity of tone and harmonic content. On (some) whistles and certainly on flute a run like fdad bdad when played unvented has a fair likelihood of the d breaking or 'honking' when not played with the utmost care while venting will effortlessly give you a clear tone. Effects may be stronger on some whistles than on others.

_________________
My brain hurts

Image


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2019 11:42 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun May 01, 2016 6:54 am
Posts: 262
Thanks for the explanation :). Yep, I notice it on some whistles. Like the O'Brien I got today. The vented D sounds better than unvented and the unvented can get a bit scratchy when not hitting it with exactly the right breath pressure. I might have to change my fingering to use oxxxxx more often.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2019 12:10 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Aug 22, 2009 9:10 pm
Posts: 131
Mr.Gumby wrote:
Quote:
I emailed Chris Abell about this


That's the only correct way to go about this and find out with any certainty.

Second d' is very easy to blow sharp and that is the more likely culprit. On the other hand, you could be underblowing the other notes, it's been known to happen. Balancing the relations between notes can be a delicate thing, especially if you don't have a lot of mileage on a particular whistle.

I think it's highly unlikely the whistle is voiced to sound correctly unvented. Venting the note is about other things than than just pitch/intonation.


Chris responded, see below...

"Thanks for your message. I am glad that you have received the whistle and that you are pleased with it. I hope it will bring many years of good music.

The D2 on my whistle does play best in tune with the xxxxxx fingering due to the cylindrical bore design. The other fingering (oxxxxx) comes from the flute which needs the extra venting for that and other notes."


Any thoughts on this? Thanks!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2019 8:51 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Aug 22, 2009 9:10 pm
Posts: 131
Just curious what everyone thinks of Chris' response?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2019 1:36 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2011 5:39 pm
Posts: 2870
Location: Kinlochleven
I'm surprised he said 'due to the cylindrical bore design.' Lots of whistles have cylindrical bores and play OXXXXX D just fine.

_________________
And we in dreams behold the Hebrides.

Why I teach... and where
Master of nine?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2019 3:09 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2010 11:31 am
Posts: 4929
Location: the Back of Beyond
Quote:
Lots of whistles have cylindrical bores and play OXXXXX D just fine.


I would argue there are plenty of (cylindrical) whistles that benefit from venting d' and under some circumstances can act up, as I described earlier, when not vented.

_________________
My brain hurts

Image


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2019 3:19 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun May 01, 2016 6:54 am
Posts: 262
True. I have conical as well as tapered bore whistles that play fine either way. But also some conical bore whistles that sound much better with oxxxxx. I guess after all it is just a design choice by Mr. Abell to make the whistle play in tune with xxxxxx. Like I wrote, I'd prefer it, others wouldn't.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2019 4:05 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 10, 2006 7:25 am
Posts: 4259
Location: WV to the OC
Having played a large number of different whistle makes over the last decade, I've noticed that Bottom D/Middle D tuning seems to be one of the most difficult things for whistle makers to get exactly right.

I've often come across the issue that your whistle has, Middle D a tad sharper than Bottom D, though the octaves of the finger-hole notes are good.

That issue AFAIK is built into the design. What we can do as whistle owners is decide how we prefer to deal with this, three possibilities being:

1) have Bottom D in tune with the rest of the whistle, but have Middle D a tad sharp (shorter tube)

2) have Middle D in tune with the rest of the whistle, but have Bottom D a tad flat (longer tube)

3) meet the two halfway, with Bottom D a tiny bit flat and Middle D a tiny bit sharp (tube in the middle)

I owned a half-dozen different MK Low Ds and they all had this issue. They differed in how they approached it, some were like #1 above, others like #2 above.

But the issue isn't endemic to cylindrical whistles, because for example my Goldie Low D has both D's and in fact every note exactly in tune without having to adjust or compensate with the blowing to fix bad notes.

About closed v open Middle D, I don't think I've ever noticed there being a significant difference in pitch in any of my whistles. I've seen players do an extremely subtle (often inaudible) vibrato on Middle D by opening and closing that top hole.

_________________
Richard Cook
1978 Quinn uilleann pipes
1945 Starck Highland pipes
Goldie Low D whistle


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2019 4:09 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 10, 2006 7:25 am
Posts: 4259
Location: WV to the OC
Mr.Gumby wrote:
d can act up, as I described earlier, when not vented.


Some of us very much want d to act up, as you described.

_________________
Richard Cook
1978 Quinn uilleann pipes
1945 Starck Highland pipes
Goldie Low D whistle


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2019 4:16 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2002 6:00 pm
Posts: 4059
Location: Los Angeles
Matthewlawson3 wrote:
Just curious what everyone thinks of Chris' response?

I had to run & get popcorn. :D

I don't find the octave D to be a great note without venting. It's not a matter of pitch, as either fingering can be blown to reach it, but as I said or implied, that unvented D does not have the same tonal quality as the others.

Chris Abell may have the xxx xxx 2nd octave as his design philosophy, but perhaps he is inconsistent in actually achieving it in all his instruments.

_________________
International Traditional Music Society, Inc.
A non-profit 501c3 charity/educational public benefit corporation
Wooden Flute Obsession CDs (3 volumes, 6 discs, 7 hours, 120 players/tracks)
http://www.worldtrad.org


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2019 4:34 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2010 11:31 am
Posts: 4929
Location: the Back of Beyond
Quote:
Some of us very much want d to act up, as you described.


I know you do :D

Not everybody does though. I have gone off it myself. It can maybe work occasionally on the flute but no farting about on the whistle.

_________________
My brain hurts

Image


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2019 5:37 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun May 01, 2016 6:54 am
Posts: 262
Tony Hinnigan notices something similar (the vented d' being sharp) in this review of a McManus. At the 16:20 mark:
https://youtu.be/gps6DdHB6Dc


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2019 6:38 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2015 10:10 am
Posts: 290
Location: Middle of Virginia
I vent for all my whistles because that's how I memorized tunes when I first started on the whistle, but for some whistles, and some tunes, I make the effort not to vent because the note sounds better unvented. I guess it depends on the whistle and the tune.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2019 9:24 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Aug 22, 2009 9:10 pm
Posts: 131
pancelticpiper wrote:
Having played a large number of different whistle makes over the last decade, I've noticed that Bottom D/Middle D tuning seems to be one of the most difficult things for whistle makers to get exactly right.

I've often come across the issue that your whistle has, Middle D a tad sharper than Bottom D, though the octaves of the finger-hole notes are good.

That issue AFAIK is built into the design. What we can do as whistle owners is decide how we prefer to deal with this, three possibilities being:

1) have Bottom D in tune with the rest of the whistle, but have Middle D a tad sharp (shorter tube)

2) have Middle D in tune with the rest of the whistle, but have Bottom D a tad flat (longer tube)

3) meet the two halfway, with Bottom D a tiny bit flat and Middle D a tiny bit sharp (tube in the middle)

I owned a half-dozen different MK Low Ds and they all had this issue. They differed in how they approached it, some were like #1 above, others like #2 above.

But the issue isn't endemic to cylindrical whistles, because for example my Goldie Low D has both D's and in fact every note exactly in tune without having to adjust or compensate with the blowing to fix bad notes.

About closed v open Middle D, I don't think I've ever noticed there being a significant difference in pitch in any of my whistles. I've seen players do an extremely subtle (often inaudible) vibrato on Middle D by opening and closing that top hole.


I think I am going to have to learn the tendencies of my new Abell. I also may be underblowing on some notes. This morning I played it some and pulled the tuning slide out enough to get the 2nd octave vented D in tune but some of the other notes in the 2nd octave of course went flat. So I had to blow them in tune. I may shoot for a happy median and push the slide in a little and just don't blow as hard on the 2nd octave vented D to get it in tune.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 38 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 12 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
[ Time : 0.135s | 11 Queries | GZIP : On ]
(dh)