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PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 9:29 am 
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pancelticpiper wrote:
ytliek wrote:
the expense (of a wooden whistle) may be hindering for some folks.


In my case I'm hindered by the fact that I've never played a wooden Irish whistle that I liked.

Perhaps not the right sounding wood whistle. Its all so subjective to everyone's personal preference in sound and playing characteristics. What I especially like about wood is after an initial warm up playing the whistle just sings. I don't experience that singing with metal, plastic, or PVC whistles. And the environment or occasion to play may be a reason a particular whistle is chosen. Wood just seems to suit my preference in playing.

MichaelLoos wrote:
I had the chance to try a McManus whistle earlier this year and it was a really outstanding instrument - I'm not so sure though if I'd call it an Irish whistle or rather a six-hole fipple flute.

McManus lives in Belfast and makes his wood whistles in Belfast so that's Irish enough for me. :) The wood or flute tone in McManus whistles is exactly my preference.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 4:42 pm 
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I do love this forum. It's probably the best place in the www.

pancelticpiper wrote:
Freckle Girl wrote:
@pancelticpiper: thank you for linking your video clip here, which was nice to see and listen to. I would go straight ahead for a Burke, which I love whenever I hear one, but they reach deadlock at the customs when you order one from germany


Thanks!

I don't quite understand, do you mean ordering a Burke from Germany? Or do you mean that you're in Germany?

If you're in Germany

1) it might be good to investigate Colin Goldie

2) would your name be Sommersprossenmadel?


Yes, I'm in Germany. And yes, Colin lives a little more than a one hour drive away (shame on me :oops: )

"Sommersprossenmadel" is the funniest translation I could imagine. Um, well, I'm a boy but I like girls with freckles (more shame on me :oops: :oops: )

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I think that most low Ds will be more challenging than high whistles. At least that is my experience.


I've played the Dixon non tunable low d made from plastics. To me this one is pure fun to play and the tunes are floating with ease. Maybe not the right choice for players with the highest ambitions, but if you're looking for a low d which is as easy to play as a high d, this might suit you,

@Sedi: Browsing the Burke's website, I came to the conclusion that the shipping fee to Germany ist 50$. Together with tax and all this is a deal breaker for me.

Quote:
I love my Killarney D and Eb, but the C beats them both - definitely one of the best I've ever played!
Thank you MichaelLoos for giving your impression. Though it's been said several times, that it is all a matter of personal taste, I must say that I liked the soundfiles of the Killarney D and Eb models already.

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I also have an Impempe C which I like very much - totally different from the Killarney, needs a bit more pressure, but you can "lean into it" more if that's what you want, and you're rewarded with a wonderful round and complex tone and more dynamic possibilities. I'm not sure if these are still being made, the website is down


Big Whistle UK always had some Impepe whistles. A good address by the way. Don't know if they have Impepes yet.

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What I especially like about wood is after an initial warm up playing the whistle just sings. I don't experience that singing with metal, plastic, or PVC whistles.


Carey Parks from Parks whistles makes fine whistles made from delrin. He once said to me, that it matters more, where the material is not, than from what material the whistle is made. He was thinking about where the holes are and what size they are etc. A very interesting point of view. But this is another discussion.

Listening to the few sound files on the www my impression was, that some wood whistles tend to be a little stinging, with the advantage ob being assertive when playing in a band. I prefer a warm and mellow tone, that's why I was in doubt considering a wood whistle. Maybe I'm totally wrong.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 6:01 pm 
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Wow I would love to be that close to Colin Goldie.

I love his whistles!

I played Low Ds from dozens of different makers and I think that my Goldie is the best of the best. Now I have a Goldie Low C too and it's amazing.

If I were in Germany I would give Burkes a pass (given the expense and trouble of acquiring them) and get more Goldies.

About "freckle girl" I thought it was self-descriptive! My bad.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2019 9:48 am 
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Well, after all I'm stuck between the Killarney and the Goldie. Ok, there is quite a difference in price as well. But apart from that I wonder what may be the differences between these two.

I couldn't find a sound sample of a Goldie soprano C whistle. Maybe because Colin is particularly famous for his low whistles, I don't know. Did anyone here experienced one?

I've seen, there is a german shop which has a Nightingale with brass body in stock, which is somerwhere between the Killarney and the Goldie in price. But I guess it's even harder to find someone who could tell something about this one. The description on the shop site says, it's a loud instrument with warm sound and well balanced between both octaves. Well loudness is not what I need at first.

I'm spoilt for choice...


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2019 10:08 am 
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Quote:
I'm stuck between the Killarney and the Goldie. Ok, there is quite a difference in price as well


These are very different whistles. Best make up your mind what you're looking for. :D

Seriously though, I don't think the 'any old C whistle will do' approach is going to serve you, or anybody in the same position, well. Decide on what you want from a whistle and find one to match your requirements as closely as possible.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2019 10:34 am 
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Mr.Gumby wrote:
Quote:
I'm stuck between the Killarney and the Goldie. Ok, there is quite a difference in price as well


These are very different whistles. Best make up your mind what you're looking for. :D

Seriously though, I don't think the 'any old C whistle will do' approach is going to serve you, or anybody in the same position, well. Decide on what you want from a whistle and find one to match your requirements as closely as possible.


I would describe my requirements this way
- warm and mellow tone
- more on the pure side than very complex with a lot of chiff
- well balanced over both octave
- in tune, producing a good nat C (in this case Bb) with OXXOOO fingering

The problem is, I can't go to a shop and compare them. Germany is a whistle diaspora (but getting better...)

Does this help?


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2019 11:35 am 
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I think that sounds rather like my Tony Dixon aluminium tunable, maybe see if you can find a sound clip online to have a listen to.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2019 1:06 pm 
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Your wish for C nat with OXX OOO fingering narrows your choice down, and will let you miss out some very good instruments.
When I started playing the whistle, Generation and Clarke Whistles were pretty much the only available ones, and there was a "right" fingering for C nat which was OXX XOX and gave a true C nat, and a couple of wrong fingerings like OXO OOO or OXX OOO which gave a sharp C nat.
Both the Gen and the Clarke were available with tutor sheets which both gave a wrong C nat - probably with the idea not to scare beginners off with a complicated fingering. Ususally, beginners who wouldn't give up after a couple of weeks would seek tuitition, then learn the right fingering from their teachers and fine.
However, at some point many more whistle manufacturers appeared on the scene, and some of them met the demand for a two-finger C nat - it seems to me these were mostly American makers (I could be wrong about that).
The price for an in-tune two-finger C nat seems to be a more or less flat C sharp - at least, that was the case with each and every one I tried so far.
The fingering OXX XOX might seem complicated at first sight, and it does require some practice until it comes to your fingers naturally, but it also does have some advantages - you can cut and even roll the C nat, and you only have to put down the bottom hand middle finger to get form C nat to middle D. Also, if you should ever think about taking up the uilleann pipes - they use the same fingering.
From the European makers, Tony Dixon is the only one I can think of whose instruments regularly give a good two-finger C nat, although I am very sure Colin Goldie could make one on request.
Anyhow, neither Killarney nor Burke nor regular Goldies will give you a good two finger C nat.
However, if you were willing to relearn your C nat fingering, this would broaden your possibilities, in terms of playing techniques as well as in choice of instruments.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2019 1:51 am 
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fatmac wrote:
I think that sounds rather like my Tony Dixon aluminium tunable, maybe see if you can find a sound clip online to have a listen to.


I played different Tony Dixons when I was in England this year and they had the aluminium tunable in stock as well. The sound characteristics are very nice and I agree with you that it is quite near to what I described as my preferences. For some reason I didn't get familiar with these. It didn't feel well to me.

Quote:
Your wish for C nat with OXX OOO fingering narrows your choice down, and will let you miss out some very good instruments.


Yes Michael, I agree with you. My only whistle that produces a brilliant C nat with OXXOOO fingering is the Parks Alto Bb. With my other whistles I prevent them from producing a sharp C nat by working with my embrochure. But you're right, that it may be easier to use OXX XOX (or for some whistles OXX XOO) fingering. So I would not strictly sort whistles out that get a little sharp when using OXXOOO.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2019 2:54 am 
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One of the first things to learn when taking up the whistle (or the flute, fiddle, pipes etc) is to learn control the intonation of notes. C natural is one stand-out note in that respect. I can never quite understand the fixation with the one true C natural that comes up on the forums time and again. C natural in Irish music is one of the most expressive notes and it is expressive because players can 'play' with the intonation of it, and it is rarely the ET one they're looking for.

The same can be said, to an extend, about the F. Yesterday I was revisiting Bobby Casey's music and was marveling at his use of three distinctly different Fs in the second part of The Woman of the house. Brilliant. It's what makes great music.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2019 3:22 am 
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Quote:
and it is rarely the ET one they're looking for.

Sorry, what does that mean? ET for Exact Tone?

Quote:
Yesterday I was revisiting Bobby Casey's music and was marveling at his use of three distinctly different Fs in the second part of The Woman of the house. Brilliant. It's what makes great music.

My aim is, not to play (exact) notes but to make music. A number of notes played one after another don't necessarily become music. If this is what you meant, this is my point of view too.

I do love irish music but I'm not irish and didn't rise up with irish musicians, can't go to pub sessions, have no teacher. That makes it harder to get into it and figure out those tiny tricks and nuances, like using different intonations on one note, depending what fits best in that special situation. But I'm willing to try.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2019 3:32 am 
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Quote:
My aim is, not to play (exact) notes but to make music. A number of notes played one after another don't necessarily become music. If this is what you meant, this is my point of view too.



The whistle is not a push button instrument, within reasonable boundaries you're in charge of the intonation of the notes you draw from it. 'In tune' is not a fully absolute, it's to a degree contextual. That's really my thinking on the subject. There was someone who put forward the whistle allows you all the 'in between notes' that can make music expressive (or when inexpertly handled, excruciating).

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2019 3:35 am 
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ET = Equal Temperament - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal_temperament

What you are wanting to do is put something of yourself into a tune, rather than just playing the notes clinically, & I totally agree that is the way to go, but we need to know the structure of a tune first.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2019 4:36 am 
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Quote:
The whistle is not a push button instrument

Is there a push button instrument at all? Even the accordion (hard to find anything with more buttons) is not a push button instrument in my opinion.

Coming from the piano, I began to explore whistle playing some years ago. What excited me was the enormous means of expression here, working with the embrochure (and ornamentation). That's what I love the whistle for. Another thing why whisteling caught me is rhythm. This of course is not a specific feature of the whistle, but of trad music in general. And so the whistle paved my way to trad music. Rhythm together with lively expression sometimes becomes music. That's what I try to work on.

Now I'm still looking for a working horse that would give me company on this way. :D


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2019 4:56 am 
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Quote:
working with the embrochure (and ornamentation)


I really don't think embouchure is much (or any) significance when playing (high) whistles.

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