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 Post subject: Music Quote
PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2019 7:19 pm 
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The following is from Robin Williamson's, "The Penny Whistle Book" (Oak Publications, 1977)

"Broadly speaking, English music tends to have an elegance and prettiness in its simplicity or courtliness. Irish music tends to be nimble, elaborate and graphic and more melodic than chordal. Scots music tends to be craggy, jocund, and haunting, more chordal than Irish music and often a bit slower."

Responses?

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 Post subject: Re: Music Quote
PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2019 8:27 pm 
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Here's Hanneke Cassel's explanation

Best wishes,

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 Post subject: Re: Music Quote
PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2019 2:14 am 
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The first two words of the quote are key. Good luck looking for a detailed discussion. You just can’t get under the superficial without dropping the political boundaries. It’s a mess, for instance The Ulster Scots are Irish and the Galloway Irish are Scots. I would drop the Ireland vs Scotland thing and be more specific geographically/culturally.

The really interesting thing to quote from that book is this:

Quote:
In the old days in Scotland 80% of the population could play some instrument or sing.


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 Post subject: Re: Music Quote
PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2019 4:54 am 
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"In the old days in Scotland 80% of the population could play some instrument or sing".
When exactly were these "old days", and where is the evidence ? Who counted them ?
Anyone who can make a statement like that has no musical credibility whatsoever.

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 Post subject: Re: Music Quote
PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2019 5:22 am 
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Guess that would be before television, & maybe they didn't even have a wireless set either. :D

.....&, of course, a lot of people didn't have electricity either, back in the day. 8)

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 Post subject: Re: Music Quote
PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2019 6:13 am 
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kenny wrote:
Anyone who can make a statement like that has no musical credibility whatsoever.


The very individual quoted is a counterexample to your claim. Additionally, I’m fairly sure statistical competence is neither a necessary nor a sufficient condition for musical credibility.


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 Post subject: Re: Music Quote
PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2019 7:01 am 
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I'm skeptical of this kind of thing. The connection to nationalism is problematic. Ulster is closer to Scotland than Kerry

Also imagine a guy--a farmer--in some rural district in Ireland in, say, 1860. He loves music, plays well, and has a quick ear. He's always looking for new tunes and for novelty. If he goes to a large market town or a port, he's likely to hear new tunes or new ways of playing old tunes, and he's likely to hoover them up and add them to his own playing. People have been crossing back and forth regularly for well over 1000 years.

I would bet that stylistic differences today are much more the product of commercial recording than anything else. If something gets marketed as "scottish" in 1925, it sets the terms for what "scottish" means for decades to come.


Last edited by PB+J on Sun Sep 22, 2019 9:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Music Quote
PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2019 7:42 am 
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bwat wrote:
The really interesting thing to quote from that book is this:

Quote:
In the old days in Scotland 80% of the population could play some instrument or sing.
Given that all children can sing, at least until someone tells them they can't, perhaps that's not such an outrageous statement. The question is not could they, but would they do so in public.


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 Post subject: Re: Music Quote
PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2019 7:50 am 
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Tunborough wrote:
bwat wrote:
The really interesting thing to quote from that book is this:

Quote:
In the old days in Scotland 80% of the population could play some instrument or sing.
Given that all children can sing, at least until someone tells them they can't, perhaps that's not such an outrageous statement. The question is not could they, but would they do so in public.


Haven’t got a clue about the veracity of the claim, but it is an interesting one. With regards to singing, let’s not forget work songs, e.g. sea shanties.


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 Post subject: Re: Music Quote
PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2019 8:40 am 
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bwat wrote:
...With regards to singing, let’s not forget work songs, e.g. sea shanties.

I'm imagining a bunch of millennials sitting in their open office areas singing keyboarding songs.

Best wishes.

Steve

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 Post subject: Re: Music Quote
PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2019 10:24 am 
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Hey, Steve : https://youtu.be/rsDkmVo2fg4

If anyone has any evidence whatsoever to support Williamson's claim, with specific reference to Scotland, please provide it.

"Given that all children can sing, at least until someone tells them they can't, perhaps that's not such an outrageous statement."
Then the same claim could be made for any nation on earth, which makes the statement totally worthless.

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 Post subject: Re: Music Quote
PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2019 10:47 am 
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kenny wrote:
My first thought, too. :)
kenny wrote:
Then the same claim could be made for any nation on earth, which makes the statement totally worthless.
Quite likely.


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 Post subject: Re: Music Quote
PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2019 11:06 am 
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Tunborough wrote:
kenny wrote:
My first thought, too. :)
kenny wrote:
Then the same claim could be made for any nation on earth, which makes the statement totally worthless.
Quite likely.


In what sense do you two evaluate this statement to be worthless? It’s a claim about the historical rate of Scottish musicianship in a book about the folk music of countries including Scotland.


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 Post subject: Re: Music Quote
PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2019 11:14 am 
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Williamson's statement is exactly that - a claim. I am merely asking what evidence he - or anyone else - can supply to support it.
Still waiting.

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 Post subject: Re: Music Quote
PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2019 11:24 am 
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kenny wrote:
Williamson's statement is exactly that - a claim. I am merely asking what evidence he - or anyone else - can supply to support it.
Still waiting.


Nobody but Williamson has made the claim. Since Williamson isn’t here, is it a good idea for you to be waiting for others to provide justification?


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