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 Post subject: Re: 5/4 Time
PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 4:54 am 
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psoutowood wrote:

At least for me it's a lot easier to think 1-2, 1-2, 1-2-3 rather than 1-2-3-4-5-6-7. Same applies to 5/4, 9/8, etc.



For sure that's how Bulgarian (and Macedonian) dance music works: bars are thought of as groups of 2 and groups of 3, the 2's being the short beats and the 3's being the long beats.

So 5/4 (Paidushko) is 2+3, "short LONG".

7/8 (Ruchenitsa) is 2+2+3, "short-short-LONG". But there's also a reversed Ruchenitsa that goes 3+2+2 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRpSrCCrPoE

9/8 in Scottish and Irish music is usually 3+3+3. In eductated music terminology this is called "compound triple time".

But 9/8 in Bulgarian dance music (Daichovo) is 2+2+2+3 "short-short-short-LONG". The feel is completely different from the "Celtic" 9/8.

There are longer Bulgarian things like Buchimish 15/8 2+2+2+2+3+2+2 "short short short short LONG short short" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=is66ko2CTgY&t=24s

The longest I've played is Sandansko 22/8 2+2+2+3+2+2+2+3+2+2 "short-short-short-LONG-short-short-short-LONG-short-short" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5tSEbTsrQM&t=20s

The point is that non-Balkans usually find these rhythms complicated but if you set the theory aside you can see schoolchildren and dancers having no trouble feeling them.

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 Post subject: Re: 5/4 Time
PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 8:26 am 
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@Richard - I have checked the band's sheet music and indeed it is noted as 5/4. My recollection of 4/4 is from two postings on The Session which are signed as 4/4 but in both I count 5 beats.

Here is a link to a 5/4 tune from The Folk Tune Finder. Were the half notes at the end of the measure it would be the same counting as the tune I'm asking about. I listened to the tune in the link and it seems a quick tempo is what is required to make it lively. http://www.folktunefinder.com/tunes/53297

And just for fun a tune from the same site in 87/8! http://www.folktunefinder.com/tunes/57190

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 Post subject: Re: 5/4 Time
PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 10:17 am 
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Michael w6 wrote:
And just for fun a tune from the same site in 87/8! http://www.folktunefinder.com/tunes/57190

That's just shorthand for alternating 8s and 7s here, so fortunately not a true 87!

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 Post subject: Re: 5/4 Time
PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 12:46 pm 
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Peter Duggan wrote:
Michael w6 wrote:
And just for fun a tune from the same site in 87/8! http://www.folktunefinder.com/tunes/57190

That's just shorthand for alternating 8s and 7s here, so fortunately not a true 87!

Should be written 8+7 over 8. Not sure if that's legal in ABC, though.

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 Post subject: Re: 5/4 Time
PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 7:00 pm 
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@psoutwood - Ha! Your tune link made me laugh. I had played GHB for several years and could never really get the hang of marching. I could play tines with the rest of the band but in photos I'm usually on the wrong foot. I could not make a connection between my feet and fingers. Once I was walking about playing jigs and a bandmate said, "You don't march while playing jigs." Well, I guess at least one person did.

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 Post subject: Re: 5/4 Time
PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 7:08 pm 
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pancelticpiper wrote:
bars are thought of as groups of 2 and groups of 3, the 2's being the short beats and the 3's being the long beats.

So 5/4 (Paidushko) is 2+3, "short LONG".
Ahhh. That helps a whole lot. Thank you. Just like some tunes in 6/8 are better felt "in two" (1 - - 2 - -) instead of counting all the beats, it makes great sense to feel these rhythms in larger chunks. ... They just happen to have chunks of different sizes.

My Morse code background is of limited help here because the short tone there is a third the length of the long tone, rather than two thirds.


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 Post subject: Re: 5/4 Time
PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 8:13 pm 
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While noodling about online concerning this topic I stumbled onto this site: Kyle Coughlin Music.com He has a section titled, "Rhythm In Music." Those following this discussion may wish to check it out.

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 Post subject: Re: 5/4 Time
PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 11:37 am 
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A few off the top of my head:
Slip Jigs are 9/8 and pretty common in Ireland.
Several Beatles tunes employ odd time signature changes: "All you need is love", "She said, She Said",


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 Post subject: Re: 5/4 Time
PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2019 6:40 pm 
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