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 Post subject: Two Questions
PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:13 pm 
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Hi everyone I have a few questions.

1. I have a brass Burke Narrow Bore whistle that is darkening, which I don't mind, but it does leave a brass smell on my fingers after playing. Any way to eliminate this smell? How do I clean the patina off the whistle and polish it up if I wish to do so?


2. Refresh my memory on tonguing two or more notes of the same tone (D, D for instance). Do you tongue both D's or just the D or D's after the initial D?


Last edited by Matthewlawson3 on Tue Jul 16, 2019 9:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Two Questions
PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 3:35 pm 
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Weiman's brass polish is water rinse-able so it doesn't leave a residue. I think John Sindt recommended it to me. If you want to slow down the tarnishing have a soft cloth around to do a quick wipe down after you play it.

Your tonguing question is more complex. I'd think the context of the tune and the phrasing you are going for would affect your decision.


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 Post subject: Re: Two Questions
PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 4:08 pm 
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Matthewlawson3 wrote:
I have a brass Burke Narrow Bore whistle that ... does leave a brass smell on my fingers after playing. Anyway to eliminate this smell?

Since the brass smell never bothered me (yes, I'm a swine), I never considered washing my hands, so I don't know if that works. If it doesn't, then time is your only ally. A coating, such as lacquer or the like, is probably your only other recourse.

Matthewlawson3 wrote:
Refresh my memory on tonguing two or more notes of the same tone (D, D for instance). Do you tongue both D's or just the D or D's after the initial D?

I would agree with busterbill on this: It depends.

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 Post subject: Re: Two Questions
PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 5:58 am 
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busterbill wrote:
Weiman's brass polish is water rinse-able so it doesn't leave a residue. I think John Sindt recommended it to me. If you want to slow down the tarnishing have a soft cloth around to do a quick wipe down after you play it.

Your tonguing question is more complex. I'd think the context of the tune and the phrasing you are going for would affect your decision.



I understand what you mean, but let me ask it this way, generally speaking if I decided to tongue instead of using strikes or cuts, and I had three Ds back to back would you normally tongue all of them? I'm trying to refresh my memory on any possible tonguing rules haha.


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 Post subject: Re: Two Questions
PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 6:20 am 
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Matthewlawson3 wrote:
I understand what you mean, but let me ask it this way, generally speaking if I decided to tongue instead of using strikes or cuts, and I had three Ds back to back would you normally tongue all of them? I'm trying to refresh my memory on any possible tonguing rules haha.

If you're going to exclude finger articulation, how else COULD you separate them? Otherwise, you just get a long note. AFAIK, the techniques available to separate notes would be: cut, tap (strike), tongue, glottal stop, roll, cran (where possible), octave jump. Use whatever fits the music, your preference, and your ability.

Oh, I suppose you could also drop 1 of the 3 notes. For instance, tongue 1st, drop 2nd (breathe), tongue 3rd.

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 Post subject: Re: Two Questions
PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 6:42 am 
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kkrell wrote:
Matthewlawson3 wrote:
I understand what you mean, but let me ask it this way, generally speaking if I decided to tongue instead of using strikes or cuts, and I had three Ds back to back would you normally tongue all of them? I'm trying to refresh my memory on any possible tonguing rules haha.

If you're going to exclude finger articulation, how else COULD you separate them? Otherwise, you just get a long note. AFAIK, the techniques available to separate notes would be: cut, tap (strike), tongue, glottal stop, roll, cran (where possible), octave jump. Use whatever fits the music, your preference, and your ability.

Oh, I suppose you could also drop 1 of the 3 notes. For instance, tongue 1st, drop 2nd (breathe), tongue 3rd.


I would normally use strikes and cuts and as I become more proficient other approaches. I was just asking theoretically. Are there any rules when it comes to tonguing on penny whistle?


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 Post subject: Re: Two Questions
PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 8:28 am 
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Matthewlawson3 wrote:
I would normally use strikes and cuts and as I become more proficient other approaches. I was just asking theoretically. Are there any rules when it comes to tonguing on penny whistle?

I'd say no, not on whistle. Just whatever your audience and your own sensibilities will accept. On flute (ITM), tonguing is usually not used, but with some players & in some instances, it can have a place, although likely used sparingly.

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 Post subject: Re: Two Questions
PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 8:51 am 
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kkrell wrote:
Matthewlawson3 wrote:
I would normally use strikes and cuts and as I become more proficient other approaches. I was just asking theoretically. Are there any rules when it comes to tonguing on penny whistle?

I'd say no, not on whistle. Just whatever your audience and your own sensibilities will accept. On flute (ITM), tonguing is usually not used, but with some players & in some instances, it can have a place, although likely used sparingly.


Okay thank you.

I've played clarinet since I was 13 and I'm 33 now so I'm used to tonguing. I picked up a Penny Whistle at Williamsburg, VA around 13, and played it off and on, but it was only recently that I got lessons from the Online Academy of Irish Music and bought a Burke brass D Narrow Bore to focus myself on the whistle. I don't play clarinet as much anymore. I find the whistle to be freeing in a way as there seems to be less solid rules and it allows for more freedom.

Thanks for the info.


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 Post subject: Re: Two Questions
PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 9:48 am 
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Matthewlawson3 wrote:
Okay thank you.

I've played clarinet since I was 13 and I'm 33 now so I'm used to tonguing. I picked up a Penny Whistle at Williamsburg, VA around 13, and played it off and on, but it was only recently that I got lessons from the Online Academy of Irish Music and bought a Burke brass D Narrow Bore to focus myself on the whistle. I don't play clarinet as much anymore. I find the whistle to be freeing in a way as there seems to be less solid rules and it allows for more freedom.

Thanks for the info.

It's also a lot easier to not fuss with a reed, buzz your lip to death, and is nice to be able to overblow to get the octave.

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 Post subject: Re: Two Questions
PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 12:04 pm 
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Matthewlawson3 wrote:

2. Refresh my memory on tonguing two or more notes of the same tone (D, D for instance). Do you tongue both D's or just the D or D's after the initial D?


It depends on the context.

I use double-tonguing in the 2nd part of Harvest Home. I don't tongue the first note of each three.

I'd probably only tongue the first note in a group of two if it helped with articulation (like if I was having problems getting the first note to sound cleanly.)

I also don't generally play Irish style music, but Scottish, and we seem to have more pronounced articulation.


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 Post subject: Re: Two Questions
PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 6:29 pm 
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Certainly if the three D's in sequence occurred in a tune in a spot where it has the effect of a Long Roll, tonguing all three would sound non-idiomatic to me.

In spite of all the tonguing that peppers much high-whistle playing, the mainstream whistle style in ITM is essentially legato.

I know it sounds like a contradiction, but a large amount of tonguing can be put in ITM whistle playing while maintaining the music's flowing character.

It's where the tonguing is placed, and the effect it has.

If I think about the sound of a jig or reel where instead of rolls you have three equally-timed and equally-articulated notes, I hear something that doesn't sound like ITM.

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 Post subject: Re: Two Questions
PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 9:11 am 
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There aren't any rules and I see nothing wrong with tonguing three consecutive notes of the same pitch - provided that in doing so you get the rhythm right.

Traditional players often tongue two consecutive notes, not necessarily ones of the same pitch. The thing to understand here is that tonguing is not just a matter of attacking or articulating the note you think you are about to tongue. It's also about shortening the note that comes before. In this technique you stop the preceding note by blocking the airway with your tongue before articulating the next one by making a tuh, duh or whatever movement of the tongue.

This gives you very precise control over the preceding note's length and hence the rhythm in the passage concerned. If you want to make Mary Bergin's "ha-ta-ta" jig tonguing (termed "slur-tongue-tongue" by Brother Steve) sound the way it is supposed to, you will have to learn this trick.


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 Post subject: Re: Two Questions
PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 1:56 pm 
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Thanks for the info guys! One last question, is there a cut fingering for C# on a D whistle?


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 Post subject: Re: Two Questions
PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 4:56 pm 
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Specifically for the 3-D's, you can also use a "crann" (which I haven't seen mentioned yet)... There are youtube videos describing the technique.

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 Post subject: Re: Two Questions
PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 1:42 am 
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Provided your whistle gives you a good and not-too-flat C# with the bottom hand fingers down: OOO XXX, you can cut with middle D: OXX XXX, then quickly remove middle and ring fingers of the top hand.
This is not a very common technique, and requires a good bit of practice to get it to sound clean - and I doubt you will use it very often...
A technique which I use every now and then for C# is, moving the top hand a bit upwards (towards the mouthpiece) and sliding the middle and forefinger across the top hole, basically playing C#-B-C#-B-C#, thus a C# triplet divided by very short Bs. Again, a lot of practice to make it sound clean, for an effect which hardly anyone will ever notice... :wink:


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