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PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 2:26 pm 
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ChristianRo wrote:
I recently sold my Sindt. And kept my chewed ol' Gen. My expensive High D is a Dixon Trad. Call me a sage if you want :D


I've seen a lot of YouTube videos of the Sindt and while it obviously plays very well, it has a particular light chirpy sound, and there are many types of tonal qualities whistles can make. I like to have whistles of about three different tonal types. I've heard the Sindt takes little air. Did you find with the Sindt you could play longer phrases easier or just play a long time with less fatigue?


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 3:38 pm 
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The problem with Generations is that they use the molds until they are completely worn out. And the whistles made with those molds suck. If you are in a store, you don't have to even try them but you can see if they are good or not. If all the edges are sharp and crisp, then they are fine. If they have (new in box) nicks and dings on the mouthpiece, they are garbage. The thing is -- it is well worth looking for "the one" because a good Generation outperforms almost ANY other brand. That's why some people (me included) buy a bunch of them to find a good one. The really good one I have was one I actually did try before buying. However, my urge to buy new whistles took a serious blow once I started making my own.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 4:06 pm 
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RoberTunes wrote:

Here again we witness the phenomena of promoting the idea that people should actually go out into the marketplace and buy many copies of a typically defective product, in the hope that one in 5 or ten or twenty, is actually worth keeping. My strong suspicion is that the company(s) that own the Generation brand are under a strong and clear trendline that is moving towards bankruptcy.

Apparently the Clarke company also saw that trendline as a possibility and decided to do something responsible and constructive about it; create some better whistles, which they did, and people seem to like the new models and established a solid place in the market for them. Bravo! But Generation can't compete based on the merit of the product, as a company it refuses to play the game of integrity of value; from the worldwide consistent supply of customer testimonials, getting a quality Generation whistle in your hands relies either on post-sales toolshed workmanship done by the buyer with custom tools (so in effect, it's not a Generation whistle at all), or a secondary business that will customize the whistle for you, which doubles the price of the whistle. Or, Generation relies on absurd sales advice being followed, with one in maybe 10 whistles being worth buying at all (customers seem to always say, and I've experienced that too), and the rest get sent to the landfill as preventable pollution and a waste of materials and energy, while those at Generation and at music stores laugh at the mindless gullibility of customers who have been fed absurd guidance. So shop around, there are dozens of whistle brands and models at inexpensive prices that will work just fine right off the shelf, and with them, you only have to buy ONE.


To be honest, I've never gone in anywhere and bought 5 or 10 or 20 Generations. I have, however, bought at least one of every key except G. All were simply purchased from a music shop, off the rack, no modifications and without even trying a bunch to pick the best one. Some are among my favorite whistles, some aren't. All are eminently playable, with no major defects. I have no idea where this idea that the majority of Generations are terrible comes from, but it has not been borne out by my or many other players' experience.

I hate to be so blunt, but if you play a Generation whistle and it sounds terrible, you are much more likely to be the problem than the whistle. That's not to say that they're all amazing, or that there aren't some duds. Yes, it's possible that you're good and the whistle isn't. But on the balance, there are a lot more terrible players than there are terrible Generation whistles. Anyone who has played for a while has probably had the experience of finding out that the seemingly awful whistle they started on has miraculously improved after sitting in a drawer for years. What's the secret? I'll give you a hint: the whistle didn't change!

As to Generation's financials, I'd imagine that they're not going to be the next Amazon, but they're still in every music shop in Ireland so they seem to be doing OK. I know next to nothing about the company's financial situation, but unless you're their disgruntled former CFO I doubt you have much insight on it either. I don't really see how any of that is relevant to whether or not they make good instruments.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 4:51 pm 
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RoberTunes wrote:
I've heard the Sindt takes little air. Did you find with the Sindt you could play longer phrases easier or just play a long time with less fatigue?


It takes little air and it is an easy player throughout. My only gripe with it is its top-heaviness. The Sindt is a tamed variant of the Generation/Feadog type whistles. Which is its strength and weakness alike.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 5:27 pm 
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but if you play a Generation whistle and it sounds terrible, you are much more likely to be the problem than the whistle

Unfortunately not, because some of them really are rubbish--they squeak and squeal, sound scratchy and aweful, no matter how good a player you are. Some are great and some are not. I can take a picture and show you all the flaws in the mouthpiece (all in the same spots) on different specimen, if you don't believe me. Yes, they can be played but almost any other whistle is better than those. The newer ones are better however. It seems that Generation have replaced the molds for the heads.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 5:35 pm 
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Sedi wrote:
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but if you play a Generation whistle and it sounds terrible, you are much more likely to be the problem than the whistle

Unfortunately not, because some of them really are rubbish--they squeak and squeal, sound scratchy and aweful, no matter how good a player you are. Some are great and some are not.


That's why I said "most likely." It's also why I added

Quote:
Yes, it's possible that you're good and the whistle isn't.


I'm not saying that there aren't bad Generations. I am saying that the idea that only 1 in 5 or 10 or 20 is good is over-exaggerating the issue to the extreme.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 5:48 pm 
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Now that is true. It is not one in 20. But of the ones I have, only one of the Ds is really good (C and Bb are great btw and I only have two in C and one in Bb). Of the 12 Generations I have, about one third is bad.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2019 12:46 am 
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RoberTunes wrote:

Here again we witness the phenomena of promoting the idea that people should actually go out into the marketplace and buy many copies of a typically defective product, in the hope that one in 5 or ten or twenty, is actually worth keeping. My strong suspicion is that the company(s) that own the Generation brand are under a strong and clear trendline that is moving towards bankruptcy.

Apparently the Clarke company also saw that trendline as a possibility and decided to do something responsible and constructive about it; create some better whistles, which they did, and people seem to like the new models and established a solid place in the market for them. Bravo! But Generation can't compete based on the merit of the product, as a company it refuses to play the game of integrity of value; from the worldwide consistent supply of customer testimonials, getting a quality Generation whistle in your hands relies either on post-sales toolshed workmanship done by the buyer with custom tools (so in effect, it's not a Generation whistle at all), or a secondary business that will customize the whistle for you, which doubles the price of the whistle. Or, Generation relies on absurd sales advice being followed, with one in maybe 10 whistles being worth buying at all (customers seem to always say, and I've experienced that too), and the rest get sent to the landfill as preventable pollution and a waste of materials and energy, while those at Generation and at music stores laugh at the mindless gullibility of customers who have been fed absurd guidance. So shop around, there are dozens of whistle brands and models at inexpensive prices that will work just fine right off the shelf, and with them, you only have to buy ONE.


Nowhere did I mention buying 5,10, or 20 of any whistle nor would I ever recommend such a thing, especially when saying it’s not necessary to spend lots of money for a whistle. By a couple, I actually mean two. Perhaps I should have specified ... example, I purchased a brass and nickel Feadóg at once. I kept the brass because it’s what felt and sounded best to me. How that conveys to buying a ridiculous amount, I don’t know. Simply stating this as an option. Majority of my post was in support of the Tony Dixon trad, which I established as one of my primary players along with a Clarke original that’s several years old. Whistles that I know to be reliable from my experience.


-Mel


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2019 1:36 am 
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To be honest, I've never gone in anywhere and bought 5 or 10 or 20 Generations. I have, however, bought at least one of every key except G. All were simply purchased from a music shop, off the rack, no modifications and without even trying a bunch to pick the best one. Some are among my favorite whistles, some aren't. All are eminently playable, with no major defects. I have no idea where this idea that the majority of Generations are terrible comes from, but it has not been borne out by my or many other players' experience.


Exactly. I'll repeat for the third time on this thread I went into Custy's this summer, tried about a dozen of them and all were fine. They went through a bit of a bad patch a few years ago but the current output seems fine. Variability is part of the process of injection molding, there's nothing you can do about it. But the numbers of downright poor whistles is grossly overstated, usually by people new to the whistle, or people lacking the breathcontrol to play them properly.

This sort of crusaders against these whistles are tedious to the extreme.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2019 3:03 am 
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the idea that people should actually go out into the marketplace and buy many copies of a typically defective product
. Please. Even though there are variations, Generations aren't a "typically defect product". That's simply not true. All of mine are picked straight from a shop, no pre-testing. Sound-wise I like my Freeman Bluebird better (as for the tweaked-but-otherwise standard Gen-D, it's a toss-up), but that's just my preference. The Gens are all fine. If there are any issues they are all with me as a player - I'm most definitely no Mary Bergin. The first whistle I bought some years ago was a very cheap Walton, I didn't think it was particularly good. Well, I got it out from the drawer recently, and it's fine. Anything wrong with it was with me.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2019 4:42 am 
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Does anyone know the name of the company that manufactures Generation whistles? Also, is it the same company that manufactures Feadog and the other similar whistles?


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2019 5:54 am 
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Also, is it the same company that manufactures Feadog and the other similar whistles?


It's not the same company. These things have been discussed here many times: The whistles were made by Barnes & Mullins in Oswestry, Shropshire but they seem to have split off the whistle branch and they have been going under their own name at the same location. They have been introducing new whistle lines (the coloured ones and the boho) since and apparently have finally had new moulds made since they became 'Generation Music'. They have a website: Generation music. It is interesting to note they claim to have been making the whistles since 1966 while there are plenty of examples of Generation whistles long before that year, going back to Victorian times and using variants of the current logo since the 1940s/50s. And I have seen photos of whislteplayers, notably Willie Clancy and Séamus Ennis, playing Generations with plastic heads during the 1950s.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2019 8:04 am 
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bigsciota wrote:
RoberTunes wrote:

Here again we witness the phenomena of promoting the idea that people should actually go out into the marketplace and buy many copies of a typically defective product, in the hope that one in 5 or ten or twenty, is actually worth keeping. My strong suspicion is that the company(s) that own the Generation brand are under a strong and clear trendline that is moving towards bankruptcy.

Apparently the Clarke company also saw that trendline as a possibility and decided to do something responsible and constructive about it; create some better whistles, which they did, and people seem to like the new models and established a solid place in the market for them. Bravo! But Generation can't compete based on the merit of the product, as a company it refuses to play the game of integrity of value; from the worldwide consistent supply of customer testimonials, getting a quality Generation whistle in your hands relies either on post-sales toolshed workmanship done by the buyer with custom tools (so in effect, it's not a Generation whistle at all), or a secondary business that will customize the whistle for you, which doubles the price of the whistle. Or, Generation relies on absurd sales advice being followed, with one in maybe 10 whistles being worth buying at all (customers seem to always say, and I've experienced that too), and the rest get sent to the landfill as preventable pollution and a waste of materials and energy, while those at Generation and at music stores laugh at the mindless gullibility of customers who have been fed absurd guidance. So shop around, there are dozens of whistle brands and models at inexpensive prices that will work just fine right off the shelf, and with them, you only have to buy ONE.


To be honest, I've never gone in anywhere and bought 5 or 10 or 20 Generations. I have, however, bought at least one of every key except G. All were simply purchased from a music shop, off the rack, no modifications and without even trying a bunch to pick the best one. Some are among my favorite whistles, some aren't. All are eminently playable, with no major defects. I have no idea where this idea that the majority of Generations are terrible comes from, but it has not been borne out by my or many other players' experience.

I hate to be so blunt, but if you play a Generation whistle and it sounds terrible, you are much more likely to be the problem than the whistle. That's not to say that they're all amazing, or that there aren't some duds. Yes, it's possible that you're good and the whistle isn't. But on the balance, there are a lot more terrible players than there are terrible Generation whistles. Anyone who has played for a while has probably had the experience of finding out that the seemingly awful whistle they started on has miraculously improved after sitting in a drawer for years. What's the secret? I'll give you a hint: the whistle didn't change!

As to Generation's financials, I'd imagine that they're not going to be the next Amazon, but they're still in every music shop in Ireland so they seem to be doing OK. I know next to nothing about the company's financial situation, but unless you're their disgruntled former CFO I doubt you have much insight on it either. I don't really see how any of that is relevant to whether or not they make good instruments.


I'd go a little further, and I know this is how some people use the web, but for an anonymous poster on a board like this to basically libel two small companies with zero evidence is pretty outrageous.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2019 8:08 am 
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Quote:
I'd go a little further, and I know this is how some people use the web, but for an anonymous poster on a board like this to basically libel two small companies with zero evidence is pretty outrageous.


At this point you'll have to wonder if your man is just a windup artist. Or just utterly clueless. Maybe it's time to start ignoring his output.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2019 8:09 am 
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Mr.Gumby wrote:
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It is interesting to note they claim to have been making the whistles since 1966 while there are plenty of examples of Generation whistles long before that year, going back to Victorian times and using variants of the current logo since the 1940s/50s. And I have seen photos of whislteplayers, notably Willie Clancy and Séamus Ennis, playing Generations with plastic heads during the 1950s.


I'm similarly curious about that. Many companies seem to use sometimes spurious claims to backdate their company to earlier times (no, this is not a reference to Clarke), but Generation seem to have gone the other way. I wonder what their reasoning is for this?

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