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 Post subject: Re: Tin penny whistle
PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2019 2:38 pm 
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NicoMoreno wrote:
Right, what I mean is "the whistle can not be played chromatically without halfholing, and I take the position that halfholing invalidates chromaticity". Another way of putting it is "an instrument is chromatic when it can play all notes of the chromatic scale using a fingering that doesn't involve halfholing, bending, shading or similarly shaping notes".


Okay. I just add "keys" and "holes" to that list as well, because I find the underlying logic faulty. Whether it's keys, holes, forked fingering, shading, half-holing or overblowing (or underblowing), secondary vents or whatever: all of those are simply technologies and techniques applied to a simple tube with a notch in the top with the end purpose of getting notes out of it. How many notes one can get largely depends on one's musical culture. If one lives in a predominantly diatonic culture (which I gather is the case of ITM), then seven notes per octave in two maj / two min keys is all that's expected. If one lives in a predominantly chromatic culture (such as classical music), then twelve notes per octave in 12 maj / 12 min keys is what is expected. If one lives in a culture of quarter / microtonality, then perhaps they'll expect even more notes out of a whistle!

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I acknowledge that forked fingering is a bit of a grey area. Piano is clearly a chromatic instrument - each note exists, there's one key to press to achieve it. Boehm flute is more or less the same way (although certainly some keys are harder than others). A baroque flute, technically can be played chromatically, with forked fingerings (no halfholing), but there's also clearly keys that are more challenging to achieve, plus there's the whole not being tuned to equal temperament issue. A keyless irish / modern flute is *not* designed to play with cross fingerings (same as a whistle) and hence is not a chromatic instrument.


I concur regarding pianos. I'd also concur regarding reed basses. Both are one key ~ one note instruments. (Flutes are not one key / hole one note instruments.)

I think we'd both agree that violins and trombones and slide whistles are perachromatic; instruments where every conceivable note is obtainable within the instrument's range. (They go beyond chromaticity.)

It's just my contention that any instrument that can play ONLY a diatonic scale (like a toy xylophone or a toy piano with painted on black keys) is "diatonic by nature". By nature meaning it CAN NOT do other than play a diatonic scale. Any instrument that can play the twelve notes of the chromatic scale, by any means and any technique and any technology available to the player, is "chromatic by nature". The instrument may not be used that way ordinarily, and I admit this is the case with the whistle! The evidence simply weighs in favour of the latter.

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 Post subject: Re: Tin penny whistle
PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2019 7:12 pm 
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I have opted to start with one from Williamsburg because it came with 8 songs. Give me a break guys, I have to start somewhere. Ha Ha


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 Post subject: Re: Tin penny whistle
PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2019 7:14 pm 
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What1cand0 wrote:
I have opted to start with one from Williamsburg because it came with 8 songs. Give me a break guys, I have to start somewhere. Ha Ha


Ah, the famous Cooperman tin whistle...

Once set up, they're actually okay whistles!

Happy chifflating!

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 Post subject: Re: Tin penny whistle
PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2019 5:53 pm 
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whistlecollector wrote:
I think we'd both agree that violins and trombones and slide whistles are perachromatic; instruments where every conceivable note is obtainable within the instrument's range. (They go beyond chromaticity.)

AAARRGH. Can - no - longer - resist - pedantry ...

"Pera-" is to the best of my knowledge no prefix in English, so I assume by context that you meant "perichromatic" rather than "parachromatic". I would normally pronounce all three pretty much the same, so I get the reason for the spelling, but that's also the reason I can't be confident of your intended meaning; simply put, if I'm going to flame you I want it to be for the right reasons, dammit, not the wrong ones. :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Tin penny whistle
PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2019 1:59 am 
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What1cand0 wrote:
I have opted to start with one from Williamsburg because it came with 8 songs. Give me a break guys, I have to start somewhere. Ha Ha


The good thing is that you have started - the other whistles will come along shortly. :D :thumbsup:

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 Post subject: Re: Tin penny whistle
PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2019 7:17 am 
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Nanohedron wrote:
AAARRGH. Can - no - longer - resist - pedantry ...

Thanks. I resisted. But I'm grateful that you didn't. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Tin penny whistle
PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2019 9:56 am 
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whistlecollector wrote:
Perhaps you can start up a "what's the best whistle out there" thread and can enjoy a whole nother fireworks show!

:lol: :lol: :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Tin penny whistle
PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2019 12:35 pm 
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benhall.1 wrote:
Nanohedron wrote:
AAARRGH. Can - no - longer - resist - pedantry ...

Thanks. I resisted. But I'm grateful that you didn't. :)

Oh, I did resist. I did. It was the pebble in my shoe, the itch I dared not scratch; letting it be was an effort so monumental that even my teeth were sweating. But sometimes in the end public service outranks grace, and there you have it. Let the chips fall where they may.

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 Post subject: Re: Tin penny whistle
PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2019 9:09 am 
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Nanohedron wrote:
whistlecollector wrote:
I think we'd both agree that violins and trombones and slide whistles are perachromatic; instruments where every conceivable note is obtainable within the instrument's range. (They go beyond chromaticity.)


AAARRGH. Can - no - longer - resist - pedantry ...

"Pera-" is to the best of my knowledge no prefix in English, so I assume by context that you meant "perichromatic" rather than "parachromatic". I would normally pronounce all three pretty much the same, so I get the reason for the spelling, but that's also the reason I can't be confident of your intended meaning; simply put, if I'm going to flame you I want it to be for the right reasons, dammit, not the wrong ones. :wink:


Ah, no. I mean pera- (πέρα) -- "beyond (merely) chromatic".

peri-, (περί) definitely not. Concernting Chromaticity, good title for a book, though.

para-, (παρά) resembling, incorrect, no not that. Though parachromaticity, "defense against chromaticity" might be appropriate given the direction of the thread!

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 Post subject: Re: Tin penny whistle
PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2019 11:30 am 
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whistlecollector wrote:
Ah, no. I mean pera- (πέρα) -- "beyond (merely) chromatic".

I don't know why, but search as I might, I can't find this prefix. The closest I can come up with is "per-", which seems to fill roughly the same niche you describe.

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 Post subject: Re: Tin penny whistle
PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2019 7:05 pm 
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Nanohedron wrote:
whistlecollector wrote:
Ah, no. I mean pera- (πέρα) -- "beyond (merely) chromatic".

I don't know why, but search as I might, I can't find this prefix. The closest I can come up with is "per-", which seems to fill roughly the same niche you describe.
You know, the prefix in words like pera-mbulator, "beyond mbulator" ... er ... ummm ... never mind.


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 Post subject: Re: Tin penny whistle
PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2020 4:44 am 
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I doubt the OP is still here and looking but I couldn't help noticing one of these appearing on ebay: RARE ANTIQUE VINTAGE U.S METAL PENNY WHISTLE ENGRAVED EAGLE & U,S,.PITCH B

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 Post subject: Re: Tin penny whistle
PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2020 6:19 am 
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I just want to point out that having an eagle and the stamp US doesn't necessarily mean a military connection.

Here in the USA it wasn't uncommon in the 19th and well into the 20th century for objects of almost any sort to have such decoration. For one thing there have always been firms called "American This" and "U.S. That" which use the eagle as their corporate logo.

There are sort of whistle/fife hybrid things. I used to have a fife stamped San Francisco Fife Company (IIRC) that was merely a brass whistle body with a lead transverse "cheater" soldered near the top, basically a transverse whistle.

Yes beware that many of these 19th century whistles and fifes have lead fipples or mouthpieces.

Here's a fife just like the one I used to have, though this one is made in Maryland IIRC

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 Post subject: Re: Tin penny whistle
PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2020 8:13 am 
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Mr.Gumby wrote:
I doubt the OP is still here and looking but I couldn't help noticing one of these appearing on ebay: RARE ANTIQUE VINTAGE U.S METAL PENNY WHISTLE ENGRAVED EAGLE & U,S,.PITCH B

Image



Thanks for sharing this. It is fun to see a post run a full circle.


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 Post subject: Re: Tin penny whistle
PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2020 3:33 pm 
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New album out: "We Got All The Notes", featuring The Tone Hole Digits and the PanChromatic Brass Band


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