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 Post subject: Tune help
PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 10:39 am 
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Hi all, I am trying to pick out the melody to 'Diamonds and rust' on a D whistle. I am not trying to match the pitch of the original (I probably do not have the right whistle)
I seem to have most luck starting on b.
Heres what I do roughly (and I may be well off.....) I cannot make the last line fit. What am I doing wrong?

Code:
b     E    E   E
Well I'll be damned

E      F    G    A     E  E
Here comes your ghost again

E    E      D  E D b b
But that's not unusual

b    b    C    D   b    a  a
It's just that the moon is full

And you happened to call

A A A A F# G  ????  does not sound quite right to me

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 Post subject: Re: Tune help
PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 5:01 pm 
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DrPhill wrote:
Hi all, I am trying to pick out the melody to 'Diamonds and rust' on a D whistle. I am not trying to match the pitch of the original (I probably do not have the right whistle)
I seem to have most luck starting on b.
Heres what I do roughly (and I may be well off.....) I cannot make the last line fit. What am I doing wrong?

Code:
b     E    E   E
Well I'll be damned

F#      G        A      G       E  E
Here comes your ghost again

E    E      D  E D b b
But that's not unusual

b    b    C    D   b    a  a
It's just that the moon is full

F#      G    A     G      F#   G
And you happened to call

A A A A F# G  ????  does not sound quite right to me


I have corrected a few things above, Dr. Phill. Great song... Key is e minor. Great for a D whistle...

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 Post subject: Re: Tune help
PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 5:53 pm 
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For some reason, DrPhill, I am not able to make the formatting come out correctly. It looks right when I preview, but then it goes to blazes on two of the lines. Hope it makes sense to you.
Byll

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 Post subject: Re: Tune help
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 2:16 am 
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Thanks Byll, that does sound better.

I apologise for the wacky formatting - 'code' sections should give a fixed space font, but obviously did not.
The only way I got it to look halfway good was by repeated preview/edit cycles. If I could reliably encode note length in ABC then that would have been a better solution, but once I have the notes in my head I no longer need the written music so it has worked well enough for this case.

Byll wrote:
Great song... Key is e minor.
Do you mean the original key, or just what I have transposed it to? I always get drawn to minor keys - maybe a character flaw. And the song is interesting when played next to It aint me babe :D .

So thanks again for taking the time. I am slowly getting better at learning by ear, but I am not there yet.

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 Post subject: Re: Tune help
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 6:23 am 
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It has been a long time DrPhill, but I think the original was keyed in f minor - 4 flats - an odd key for a pop/folk song. Your choice of e minor is perfect for a d whistle. I am actually glad you used a 'coding' instead of ABC. I do not read ABC.

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 Post subject: Re: Tune help
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 6:41 am 
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Byll wrote:
....I think the original was keyed in f minor - 4 flats - an odd key for a pop/folk song.

I have never really understood what drives a choice of key, pitch-wise. I always assume its for the singers comfort.
Byll wrote:
Your choice of e minor is perfect for a d whistle.

Its useful to know what it is in... sometimes I can choose one of my other whistles and play along. (I guess a G whistle would work here, but I do not have one of those). I tend to listen to the tune until I can hear it in my head and then try to find the melody on a whistle. I can usually make a fair stab at it these days, but I generally have to transpose (though that sounds a bit technical considering the process of trial and error that I follow).
Byll wrote:
I am actually glad you used a 'coding' instead of ABC. I do not read ABC.
I know- I struggle too, there are two parts to it pitch and rhythm. I can do the pitch bit but not the rhythm bit. Same with dots. Still we found an adequate means of communicating.

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 Post subject: Re: Tune help
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 2:32 pm 
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Byll wrote:
It has been a long time DrPhill, but I think the original was keyed in f minor - 4 flats - an odd key for a pop/folk song. Your choice of e minor is perfect for a d whistle. I am actually glad you used a 'coding' instead of ABC. I do not read ABC.

Correct: original key if F minor. It's perfect for playing on a Bb whistle. Fits like a dream. I played it straight off along with the recording. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Tune help
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 3:01 pm 
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benhall.1 wrote:
Correct: original key if F minor. It's perfect for playing on a Bb whistle. Fits like a dream. I played it straight off along with the recording. :)


I seem to be missing a note off the bottom of my Bb whistle :( For some reason I want to start playing along with the four-finger-down note....

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 Post subject: Re: Tune help
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 3:18 pm 
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DrPhill wrote:
benhall.1 wrote:
Correct: original key if F minor. It's perfect for playing on a Bb whistle. Fits like a dream. I played it straight off along with the recording. :)


I seem to be missing a note off the bottom of my Bb whistle :( For some reason I want to start playing along with the four-finger-down note....

Yes, it does go 'off the bottom', but only in a way that's fixed reasonably standardly by 'folding' the note up the octave.

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 Post subject: Re: Tune help
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 3:20 pm 
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benhall.1 wrote:
Yes, it does go 'off the bottom', but only in a way that's fixed reasonably standardly by 'folding' the note up the octave.


Hmmmm, that is a skill I have yet to learn. My logical brain says 'going down...' and my fingers do not want to go up.

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 Post subject: Re: Tune help
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 3:35 pm 
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DrPhill wrote:
benhall.1 wrote:
Yes, it does go 'off the bottom', but only in a way that's fixed reasonably standardly by 'folding' the note up the octave.


Hmmmm, that is a skill I have yet to learn. My logical brain says 'going down...' and my fingers do not want to go up.

Well, now, that's the problem with having a logical brain, isn't it? :D

I'm just wondering, seriously, though, whether I might be able to help with this. What if you 'stopped the tape', as it were, a few notes before that note that's too low for the whistle, and then tried to play a section of notes up the octave, instead of just one? Then, when you're used to the sound of the 'offending' note, try playing the phrase at its normal pitch, i.e. down the octave, and quickly substitute in the note that you've established from playing that part of the tune up the octave. Would that help? Just a thought ...

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 Post subject: Re: Tune help
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 3:46 pm 
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benhall.1 wrote:
Well, now, that's the problem with having a logical brain, isn't it? :D

Indeed. When I can switch it off I play better. But something learning something new like this requires thought, at least initially.

benhall.1 wrote:
I'm just wondering, seriously, though, whether I might be able to help with this. What if you 'stopped the tape', as it were, a few notes before that note that's too low for the whistle, and then tried to play a section of notes up the octave, instead of just one? Then, when you're used to the sound of the 'offending' note, try playing the phrase at its normal pitch, i.e. down the octave, and quickly substitute in the note that you've established from playing that part of the tune up the octave. Would that help? Just a thought ...


Thanks, Ben, I will give it a try when SWMBO is safely out of earshot.

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