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Burke C Natural Intonation
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Author:  Matthewlawson3 [ Fri Jan 11, 2019 7:08 am ]
Post subject:  Burke C Natural Intonation

Hi, I have a Burke narrow bore High D brass Whistle and I've noticed after tuning and playing for awhile the C natural tends to be flat, according to my digital tuner, on the OXXOOO fingering, with all other notes being close in tune. I know about the half hole B natural fingering for C Natural, but is there another that would be less flat than the OXXOOO fingering?

Do I need to cover other holes with my fingers while playing the C Natural?

Do I just need to blow it in tune and use more air support?

Author:  Mr.Gumby [ Fri Jan 11, 2019 7:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Burke C Natural Intonation

Trust your ear, don't play by electronic tuner, it's a sure set way to insanity. It may well be the C natural was intended slightly flat (23 cent flat is just about perfect in a temperament designed to play over a drone).

The whistle is not a push button instrument like an accordion or a concertina, you have a degree of control over the intonation. Within reason, it's up to the player to get a note exactly where they want it.

Author:  Peter Duggan [ Fri Jan 11, 2019 8:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Burke C Natural Intonation

It's very unusual for a OXXOOO C natural to be flat, and many whistles require the addition of further fingers to bring it down because it's more typically sharp. So, no, adding fingers won't help unless you take one off first, in which case try OXOXXX (which is normally a little sharper) or OXOOOO (which will almost certainly be way too sharp).

Author:  fiddlerwill [ Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Burke C Natural Intonation

On my low D i prefer to finger c nat oxoooo.

Author:  Matthewlawson3 [ Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Burke C Natural Intonation

The C natural being flat may have been caused by the warmed Whistle and me having adjusted the tuning slide to get the other notes close to in tune or in tune.

Is it better to have the first register flatter and just push in tune that register with the 2nd register closer to in tune off the bat. Or should it be vice versa?

Also, according to what was mentioned above, if the C natural is traditionally sharp then should I just leave it sharp when tuning and then add fingers to bring it down? Which way should I go.

Author:  Tyler DelGregg [ Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Burke C Natural Intonation

That's the one thing about the Burke I have always struggled with. I can't quite get the OXX OOO to sound good, which is not the case with my Mellow Dog, Anak, and Milligan. They are good with OXX OOO. However, listening to decent players on YouTube, they are sounding just fine, so it must be my breath control.

Author:  Peter Duggan [ Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Burke C Natural Intonation

Matthewlawson3 wrote:
if the C natural is traditionally sharp

There's a difference between traditionally and typically. It's typically sharp with OXXOOO because bringing it into tune with that fingering typically leaves C# flat. But, yes, tune your whistle holistically and not to OXXOOO C (or any other single note).

Author:  TDKBeloushi [ Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Burke C Natural Intonation

Dear Matthewlawson3,

This is from Mr. Mike Burke :

I make no claims regarding cross fingerings to get a flattened 7th. Much better to half hole or get my thumbhole option. Fork fingerings are unnatural on whistles because it is important to the richness of the tone that the toneholes below the active tonehole are open so that higher overtones that add richness and depth are not strangled.

Hope that helps...

+

It's very true... It supposed to be sharp never flat!! I believe!


Thanks
Beloushi

Author:  Matthewlawson3 [ Tue Jan 15, 2019 5:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Burke C Natural Intonation

I too got a similar response from Michael.


He said " If you are getting a flat Cnat, you may have the slide out too far.
Set the slide on the bell note (bottom D) with middle pressure and it should be as good as it can be.
I recommend developing a half holing technique or consider a thumbhole option if tuning and top performance is important to you."

What does he mean by set the slide on the bell note with middle pressure?

He said the C natural is normally sharp and recommends half holing.

Author:  Peter Duggan [ Wed Jan 16, 2019 2:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Burke C Natural Intonation

Matthewlawson3 wrote:
What does he mean by set the slide on the bell note with middle pressure?

Tune to your low D blowing normally.

Author:  pancelticpiper [ Thu Jan 17, 2019 7:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Burke C Natural Intonation

from Burke :

"Fork fingerings are unnatural on whistles because it is important to the richness of the tone that the toneholes below the active tonehole are open so that higher overtones that add richness and depth are not strangled."

That's very Boehm-ish of him to say.

Fluteplayers and makers a couple generations before him would have disagreed entirely. They felt that more "richness and depth" came from fork fingerings than open fingerings, in many cases, and continued to use the fork fingerings out of preference for their sound after the chromatic keys were added to the flute (the keys being used for trills).

I have a Burke low whistle with the C natural thumb-hole and the tone and pitch the same as the C natural got from crossfingering.

In any case I've owned Burkes in several keys and their crossfingered C naturals oxx oox are fine, seems to me.

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