It is currently Sun May 19, 2019 8:29 am

All times are UTC - 6 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 27 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 
 Post subject: at loss with my new Bb
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 1:29 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:46 am
Posts: 14
Hello and Happy New Year!

I 've been reading the forum for over a year maybe, but I didn't have an account. I guess I didn't really have anything to post.

To cut a long story short I bought a Sweetone D (red the only available, I wanted the gold one) about a year ago. It's amazingly easy. I got the notes right away and even the second octave is easy to reach with clearly defined transition point.
BUT, I haven't practiced much because I don't like the sound of it.
It's too high for my tastes and for my solo playing.

So, I got a Generation Bb (nickel one, the only one available here, I wanted the bronze).
WOW! It looks and feels amazing. Don't take me wrong, but even with the bright blue mouthpiece it looks like a real instrument and not a toy like the small D ones.
I 'm a big guy with long fingers and its bigger diameter is better for my fingers as I dont have to curl them so much. I can reach the bottom hole too, I just need some getting used to it to land on it precisely. It sounds great! Much better than what youtube compression allows. I 've never heard someone playing live any whistle. I thought that finally I ll be playing with my new toy much much more.

HOWEVER,
I was soon shocked. Either I 'm useless or that thing is broken and I have no idea how a whistle can be broken... Nothing to break. I checked the mouthpiece, no irregularities there or in the main tube.
I keep reading your posts about Generation's quality control, but I don't think it 's enough to explain it.

I can get the 2-3 top holes right, I think, but beyond that all sorts of problems appear down to the last 2 ones that are completely wrong. They are not even notes, they are more of screams and other horrible stuff. Even with the couple top notes, when I try to reach the second octave I cannot find that sweet on/off switch type of transition that is in the Sweetone. Instead of a clear point, there is a gray area of instability and secondary sounds till it reaches somewhere more stable but I have no idea if that place is actually the second octave.

I'm sorry that this is actually my first post, but I'm absolutely at loss. I have no clue as to where I m heading with that Bb, what is wrong or how I am supposed to fix it.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:08 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2018 5:40 am
Posts: 454
Forgive me if I'm being too basic, but 99% of the time the problem is either

A; Failure to completely cover the holes
B: overblowing

Are you sure you are covering the holes completely? Are you blowing gently?


The mouthpiece can be messed up--see if there is any flashing left over from the mold. Is the windway obstructed in any way? look into the mouthpiece from the blowing end, the art that goes in yur mouth. See if there are any obstructions.

Is the head tightly fitted to the body? I recently bought an Eb generation with the head ridiculously loose on the tube

Ok sorry if this is dumb, but is the mouthpiece on the right end of the whistle?

Maybe post a picture?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:27 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2001 6:00 pm
Posts: 1988
Location: Detroit, Michigan
To clarify:
1. It used to work, and sounded great
2. Now suddenly it doesn't
Is that right?

If so, check (in order)
1. to see if there's water, spit, food, or something else in the windway.
2. to see if the head piece cracked (if so, just wrap it with electrical tape, and you're fine).
3. to make sure your fingers aren't leaking or you aren't suddenly overblowing.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:20 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:46 am
Posts: 14
It never fully worked. As described, I was only able to make the top 2-3 holes to work, somewhat. That 's enough to make me love the tone of it though. Sorry for the confusion.

I 'm definitely not overblowing. I ve started from so little air that it doesn't even play up to maybe oboe levels pressure to see what happens but it doesn't work. I like it to play as softly and quietly as possible so I m very careful to not overdo it.

I do cover the holes. I know the sound that a failure to fully cover a hole makes from my experience with the D one. I even position my fingers looking at them one by one before bringing it to my mouth. It isn't that either.

The mouthpiece is on the right end, it is tightly fitted, I cannot twist it. It is not cracked.
I have examined it against a lamp from both ends. It doesn't seem to have any big anomalies. Maybe something small, grazes, that I cannot see without taking the mouthpiece apart?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 12:59 am 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 5:21 pm
Posts: 12200
Location: Unimportant island off the great mainland of Europe
I would say, in order:

1) Don't mess with it too much (or at all);
2) Get someone who you know can play whistle to have a go on it.

_________________
"Only connect!"

https://youtu.be/ezbWVysJAOY
https://tapm.bandcamp.com/


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 3:27 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2017 5:47 am
Posts: 508
Location: Surrey/Hants border, England
I have a Sweetone in C, a nice easy playing whistle, I also have a Feadog, a Waltons, an ABS Dixon, & two whole sets of Generations, & apart from my Eb nickel, which has a loose head, they all play perfectly.

My thoughts are that maybe you are so used to the ease of playing the Sweetone, that you just haven't aquired the skill of playing regular whistles yet.
However, if it's new, you can always return it as faulty goods.

_________________
Keith.
Trying to do justice to my various musical instruments.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 3:31 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2018 4:44 am
Posts: 167
Location: France
I agree with benhall.1 - find a more experienced player to test it, if at all possible.

I don't have any Bb whistle, only high Ds. Und in my array of cheap whistles (Feadog, Generation, Clarke, Dixon Trad) and the not-so-cheap Killarney, the Sweetone is by far the easiest to play. So I consider it not completely impossible that you are simply "spoiled" by your Sweetone and the Generation Bb just needs much more precise breath control (personally, I haven't conquered my Generation yet, but the Feadog sounds better the more I "break it in").

Btw, in many cases, conical instruments are easier to play than cylindrical ones... Though the conical form is supposed to make the high notes easier, not the low ones.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 8:26 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 19, 2008 11:58 am
Posts: 1446
Location: None
Maybe you are so used to your current whistle you are not prepared for the difference? Pretend you have never played a whistle before.......


ddp wrote:
I can get the 2-3 top holes right, I think

I think we can firm up some more facts here....
Homer Simpson, attr wrote:
Facts smacts, you can prove anything with facts

(1) Tape over the highest open hole. Can you get a note? One will do. What is the nearest note you can get on your D whistle? That will give us some idea of whether you are getting the low or high octave, though someone else will have to do the math for me.

(2) Goto (1)

Let us know the results.....

_________________
Phill

Press any key to continue, any other key to exit.......


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:54 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2011 12:38 pm
Posts: 31
Quote:
I keep reading your posts about Generation's quality control, but I don't think it 's enough to explain it.

I can get the 2-3 top holes right, I think, but beyond that all sorts of problems appear down to the last 2 ones that are completely wrong. They are not even notes, they are more of screams and other horrible stuff. Even with the couple top notes, when I try to reach the second octave I cannot find that sweet on/off switch type of transition that is in the Sweetone. Instead of a clear point, there is a gray area of instability and secondary sounds till it reaches somewhere more stable but I have no idea if that place is actually the second octave.


I have a Gen soprano D that acts like this. The breath-pressure gap between the bell-tone D and octave D is quite wide and filled with unmusical sounds. I never found a way to fix it, but I have another Gen D that acts decently. I simply wrote off the bad one.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:28 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:46 am
Posts: 14
Thank you for all the replies.

Unfortunately, being in Greece winning the lottery is easier than finding a whistle player to help me.

I was starting to believe that it was me, that I m too much accustomed to the conical Sweetone, but there's always a post appearing about misbehaving Generations even when they are visually fine (mwilson).

Maybe going from the conical D to a cylindrical Bb is too much of a change. If that is the case, do you think that a Sweetone C, which I can easily find and afford, would ease the transition? I know it s exactly in the middle, but does it feel closer to the piercing sound of the D or the warmth of the Bb (fatmac)?

There are so many different things between these particular D and Bb whistles plus the possibility of lack of skill that it s impossible for me to pinpoint the problem on my own and it 's really frustrating. I 'm not giving up yet though. I ll keep trying for a few days. Next month, if I haven't managed anything, I ll probably buy a Sweetone C.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 12:53 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2017 5:47 am
Posts: 508
Location: Surrey/Hants border, England
I find the Clarkes, both the C & D, to have a more mellow tone compared to the regular whistles such as the Gens & Feadog.

I would say that the Gen C is closer to the Bb in tone rather than the (shrillness of) the D.

I quite like my Gens in C, both brass & nickel, as well as the Clarkes - but then I do have a preference for the lower keyed whistles generally.

_________________
Keith.
Trying to do justice to my various musical instruments.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 1:03 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Aug 17, 2006 8:44 pm
Posts: 409
DrPhill wrote:
(1) Tape over the highest open hole. Can you get a note? One will do. . . .

(2) Goto (1)

Welcome ddp !

I started whistling almost 20 years ago. Have loved every minute of it !

I'd like to 2nd the suggestion of taping. Guaranteed hole closure. I'd tape them all. Then, experiment with breath pressure.

I have an A whistle (very close to Bb). I find the lower octave has to be *very* gently blown. The 2nd needs a good push. When I say *very* gently, I mean "the candle won't go out" ! It's a soft, quiet note, but it's there.

ddp wrote:
HOWEVER, . . .. They are not even notes, they are more of screams and other horrible stuff. . . . . . . Instead of a clear point, there is a gray area of instability and secondary sounds till it reaches somewhere more stable but I have no idea if that place is actually the second octave.

1) I call them "screeches". When I get screeches, it's always incomplete closure.

2) "gray area of instability . . ." Yup. The breath region between the 2 octaves is filled with dragons+demons. One of the tricks to whistling is hitting the right breath for any given note in either octave. You get used to it. You learn to trust your ears.

Do you play oboe ? I can't imagine any comparison between a double-reed instrument and a whistle. I'm guessing the double-reed takes *much* more pressure.

And, of course, I've found *huge* differences in breath requirements between different brands and keys, breath being both pressure and flow rate.

Good luck !

trill


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 1:09 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:46 am
Posts: 14
fatmac wrote:
I find the Clarkes, both the C & D, to have a more mellow tone compared to the regular whistles such as the Gens & Feadog.

I would say that the Gen C is closer to the Bb in tone rather than the (shrillness of) the D.

I quite like my Gens in C, both brass & nickel, as well as the Clarkes - but then I do have a preference for the lower keyed whistles generally.


Then a Sweetone C should be a nice compromise. I think we share the same likes. :thumbsup:

BTW, I just taped all the holes and I m experimenting with that problematic lowest note. It definitely doesn't behave anything like in the Sweetone.
The note only stabilizes after enough air pressur and even then I wouldn't consider it clear.
If I upload a recording playing that single note with increasing/decreasing air is it possible that someone can tell me if it's just me or the whistle is indeed faulty?

EDIT: trill, you posted while I was writing this and you 've suggested exactly what I decided to do on my own (all taped). At least, I m thinking right even if not playing right. No, I don't play the oboe. I 've tried one once. I only play keyboards, sort of. After many years my life has changed and I want to buy again descent keyboard to return to it, but till my finances allow it, I picked up the whistle as a cheaper alternative and easier than a recorder.


Last edited by ddp on Wed Jan 09, 2019 1:21 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 1:16 pm 
Offline
Moderatorer
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2002 6:00 pm
Posts: 34135
Location: Minneapolis
ddp wrote:
If I upload a recording playing that single note with increasing/decreasing air is it possible that someone can tell me if it's just me or the whistle is indeed faulty?

I think it would be very helpful. Better yet would be some scales, too.

_________________
"Time is the wisest counselor of all." - Pericles

"I remain not entirely convinced of it." - Nano


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:44 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 10, 2006 7:25 am
Posts: 4105
Location: WV to the OC
The general trend of this thread goes to show the value of in-person face-to-face (not Skype) lessons.

Because an experienced player could have immediately told you what was happening.

Trying to describe things verbally is fraught with potential misunderstandings. A video of you playing the whistle is still ambiguous- we can't tell for certain what is you, and what's the whistle.

The only way to know for certain is for an experienced player to play your specific instrument.

As instruments get more complex, in-person evaluation of the beginner's instrument becomes even more critical, from my experience the flute (especially keyed ones) and the uilleann pipes. A new fluteplayer has poor low notes and as soon as the teacher plays the student's flute finds that one of the F natural keys is leaking. A new piper is getting squawks. Is it the reed? A leaking key? Poor finger placement? Uneven air control? The newbie can't discover which but the teacher finds out immediately upon trying the student's chanter.

_________________
Richard Cook
1978 Quinn uilleann pipes
1945 Starck Highland pipes
Goldie Low D whistle


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 27 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
[ Time : 0.243s | 13 Queries | GZIP : On ]
(dh)