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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2018 7:16 pm 
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MichaelRS wrote:
And as a beginner one does not have the chops to "muscle through" something that is less than it should be.
And, for example, if the Generation D is still just fine, then there shouldn't be any post about how wonderful the pre-1980s generation was without some major qualifications about how the current one is okay itself.
Along those lines one goes back to Jerry Freeman having stopped tweaking Gen Ds because, as I understand it, the current defects in productions were just too numerous and/or varied to overcome and I halfway cost-efficient way.
So when people without money to burn hear stuff like that, they're like, "okay, I stand a better chance with a current Walton's or a Feadog if I want to get a cheap D or C".


At a session I used to go to, there was a guy who picked up one of my whistles one day to try it out. It's just a standard blue top Generation that I bought at a shop. Actually the second whistle I ever owned (after the first one was lost in a busking/street fight incident). He loved the tone. Told me to never let that one go. And a few times afterwards, he would ask me if he could play it again, and I'd oblige.

He's a decent enough whistle player. He mainly plays other instruments, so I don't think I'd be offending him if I said that he's no Mary Bergin, or even all that strong a player. But he can carry a tune with a bit of lift, essentially your bog-standard session musician.

What I didn't have the heart to tell him was that my magical Generation was actually a couple of them. Every so often I find myself in a situation where I want a whistle and don't have one, and it's cheap enough to go to the shop to pick one up. I rarely spend that much time testing it out. So I have three more or less randomly picked Generations.

They're fine. You might get a dud here or there, but almost every Generation I've had, barring a problematic Eb I once got, sound and play fine. There's variation, and some definitely sound better than others, but I don't think there's anything that would pose a problem to a beginner. You're going to sound like you're strangling a cat on a Gen, a Killarney, a Milligan, an Abell, or anything you start out with.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2018 7:56 pm 
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bigsciota wrote:
MichaelRS wrote:
And as a beginner one does not have the chops to "muscle through" something that is less than it should be.
And, for example, if the Generation D is still just fine, then there shouldn't be any post about how wonderful the pre-1980s generation was without some major qualifications about how the current one is okay itself.
Along those lines one goes back to Jerry Freeman having stopped tweaking Gen Ds because, as I understand it, the current defects in productions were just too numerous and/or varied to overcome and I halfway cost-efficient way.
So when people without money to burn hear stuff like that, they're like, "okay, I stand a better chance with a current Walton's or a Feadog if I want to get a cheap D or C".


At a session I used to go to, there was a guy who picked up one of my whistles one day to try it out. It's just a standard blue top Generation that I bought at a shop. Actually the second whistle I ever owned (after the first one was lost in a busking/street fight incident). He loved the tone. Told me to never let that one go. And a few times afterwards, he would ask me if he could play it again, and I'd oblige.

He's a decent enough whistle player. He mainly plays other instruments, so I don't think I'd be offending him if I said that he's no Mary Bergin, or even all that strong a player. But he can carry a tune with a bit of lift, essentially your bog-standard session musician.

What I didn't have the heart to tell him was that my magical Generation was actually a couple of them. Every so often I find myself in a situation where I want a whistle and don't have one, and it's cheap enough to go to the shop to pick one up. I rarely spend that much time testing it out. So I have three more or less randomly picked Generations.

They're fine. You might get a dud here or there, but almost every Generation I've had, barring a problematic Eb I once got, sound and play fine. There's variation, and some definitely sound better than others, but I don't think there's anything that would pose a problem to a beginner. You're going to sound like you're strangling a cat on a Gen, a Killarney, a Milligan, an Abell, or anything you start out with.


Well that's good to know. If that's the case then I can't figure out why Jerry Freeman with stopped tweaking them since everybody seems to rave about them.
And speaking of strangling cats, I actually turned to the whistle when I realized I was not going to be king of the bagpipe players. As I've said I'm pretty good on the slow tunes, and they're not all childrens tunes, just slower. I just got to build up the speed and dexterity in my fingers for the jigs and such, which is harder when you're 60 if you've never done it before


Last edited by MichaelRS on Fri Dec 28, 2018 8:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2018 8:12 pm 
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MichaelRS wrote:
Well that's good to know. If that's the case then I can't figure out why Jerry Freeman with stop tweaking them since everybody seem to save about them.


Variation doesn't have to mean some are good and some are bad. It could be variation in volume, in tone, in balance between octaves, and a whole host of other factors. There can be a big variation between a batch of 10 whistles without any of the whistles being necessarily a bad one. They'd just all be somewhat different. Generation is a mass production company, so they are probably less concerned with the finer details.

Unlike Generation, Jerry does look at the finer details, and wants consistency in the whistles he sells. A Freeman Tweaked Generation you buy should sound very similar to one that I might buy a year later. If I had to guess, I'd say that the variation in the Generations made that harder. Again, it doesn't mean that any particular whistle is bad or unusable, just that between 10 Generations you might find a wide variety of differences.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2018 9:02 pm 
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In reading this, a thought occurs to me...

Does it really matter why he stopped tweaking a particular whistle? Is he required to tell us why? To me, the answer to both is no.

For a while, he did. We bought them and liked them. Now he doesn't. It may or may not be a reflection on the stock whistle. We don't know. Absent his stating why he no longer tweaks a particular whistle, we are left with only speculation. Basically, wild ass guessing somebody else's actions.

We've seen in this thread many who have said the Gen D is a good whistle. We've seen "the myth" repeated. For my part, I have two Gen D's, bought in different stores at different times. Five years ago, they both sounded like crap.... Strangely, they both fairly good now. Same thing for my two Gen Bb's.

Peace to all.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2018 9:20 pm 
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jiminos wrote:
In reading this, a thought occurs to me...

Does it really matter why he stopped tweaking a particular whistle? Is he required to tell us why? To me, the answer to both is no.

For a while, he did. We bought them and liked them. Now he doesn't. It may or may not be a reflection on the stock whistle. We don't know. Absent his stating why he no longer tweaks a particular whistle, we are left with only speculation. Basically, wild ass guessing somebody else's actions.

We've seen in this thread many who have said the Gen D is a good whistle. We've seen "the myth" repeated. For my part, I have two Gen D's, bought in different stores at different times. Five years ago, they both sounded like crap.... Strangely, they both fairly good now. Same thing for my two Gen Bb's.

Peace to all.


Yes, when I'm not having a lazy evening I will search for the thread or the message in which he said there was some problem with the production process of the Generations that caused him to stop.

Okay, never mind, I found it right away. It starts in the thread link below ruggieri's long post starting with "Ahem".

About three-quarters of the way down you'll see he says "as they come from the factory they can no longer be reliably tweakv. Well, yeah, who knows what that means.
So I guess I'll PM. him and see what he means.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=107663&p=1209913#p1209913


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2018 10:48 pm 
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I apologize for missing that.

That said.... He no longer tweaks them. Buy one or don't. If you need the best $10 whistle, spend a few years working on that picking up speed thing, the breath control thing, the articulation thing, and all the other things that give a player that discernment. Then apply that discernment to choosing the best $10 whistle out there. What you will have is the whistle you think is best. And others will disagree with you after having applied their hard earned discernment only to find that the whistle they think is best is not the one that others think is best. And on it goes in perpetuity. There is NO best $10 whistle. Only opinions of which one is best.

Your efforts to engage others and get their input is to be applauded. But, in the end, you must choose the whistle that is best for you. And, in the end, the only way to know that is to play the whistles. You will never hear what others hear the way they hear it.... You will only hear it the way you hear it. And that renders their opinions to a status of just that... Opinions.

Buy a Gen. Buy a Feadog. Buy a Walton. It's 30 or 40 bucks. Play them. Choose the one you like. Give the others away. Call it a win.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2018 10:57 pm 
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Before you blame the whistle, play it three weeks everyday for one hour.
Set it aside two weeks if you don’t like it, then come back to it. Play it for another few days.
If you don’t like it, get rid of it, but remember, the old timers we respect didn’t have our options.
But if you really like it from the get-go, hang on to her. She may be the one.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2018 11:57 pm 
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Thanks guys. But I think you're taking me more serious than I am :lol: or maybe my light-hearted tone is not evident in my typed messages.
I understand that a lot of this is a matter of opinion and I'm really not agonizing over the $10 or so whistles.

For my ancillary whistles (and that's what I call them for now outside of the High D's) I'm getting a Generations Bb and a Waltons and a Feadog C.
Then I plan on getting that Susato Oriole 4 pack.

I was concentrating on getting something a little better in the primary key that I'm practicing on = D.
So I got the Mellow Dog and I have a Chris Wall on the way. Then i'm going to get an O'Brian and a Killarney.

Not because I think any of those will magically make me a better player, but just because I want to. And I want to have some whistles with decent reputations in the stable.
And then hopefully I can attribute the squeaks and squawks and so forth to my bad playing, and thus correct it, and not a bad whistle.

And I seek the opinions of other more experienced people, at the same time while putting forth what I like in whistle, such as one with less chiff or airiness to it, to reduce the chance that I'm going to willy-nilly get something that I really wont like, because all I had to go on was the manufacturer's or seller's description of their great product. But it's you guys that have had the practical experience with this, that or the other.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 4:28 am 
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I do think I understand where you're coming from, being new to whistles myself, I bought a selection of cheapies to try out, & I enjoy playing the various keys at different times, but I'm putting my money where I want a decent sounding whistle, & for me, that is in the lower regions, low A, low G, & low D.

I will still play my cheap high C, & D, even my high Eb, F, & G at various times, just for the fun of it, & I'll take out the Bb too, when I feel like a change.

I'm too old to worry about being a 'good' player, I've got them to enjoy making some music - & anyway, most of the squeaks seem to have disappeared now. :D

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 7:55 am 
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This is really a discussion that's been had here hundreds of times before. Going through it again is not going to resolve the question as the elements of belief, denial and confirmation bias are always strong in some people.

After all, how can an expensive whistle be less responsive and harder to play than a cheap one? :lol:

I don't think there's a way of convincing people not open to the idea that it's just about within the realm of possibility that a Generation or Feadóg can be played effortlessly without having 'to muscle thorough' any problems. We'll keep trying to make the point though. How's that for a new year's resolution? :P

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 8:33 am 
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Last edited by seanpmoran on Sat Dec 29, 2018 7:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 10:25 am 
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SUUM CUIQUE PULCHRUM EST


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 11:20 am 
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Mr.Gumby wrote:
This is really a discussion that's been had here hundreds of times before. Going through it again is not going to resolve the question as the elements of belief, denial and confirmation bias are always strong in some people.

After all, how can an expensive whistle be less responsive and harder to play than a cheap one? :lol:

I don't think there's a way of convincing people not open to the idea that it's just about within the realm of possibility that a Generation or Feadóg can be played effortlessly without having 'to muscle thorough' any problems. We'll keep trying to make the point though. How's that for a new year's resolution? :P



+1

Couldn't agree more.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 1:41 pm 
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 4:57 pm 
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Xx


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