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 Post subject: Help With Triplet
PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2018 4:41 pm 
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Hi All
I am endeavouring to learn a tune (The Mudgee Schottische) that has a triplet in the second part that goes C natural, high E, C natural. I cannot get any speed into the change up from C natural to the E. Is there an acceptable fingering for the C natural which could make it easier? Should I abandon the triplet and play an alternative note(s) and if so what? I should say that later on in the Tune there is another triplet that goes C natural, high D, C natural. I can handle that one OK. Maybe I should simply use the second triplet as an alternative to the first triplet. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance. JTU


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 Post subject: Re: Help With Triplet
PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2018 8:48 pm 
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Location: Pacific Coast of Washington State
oxx ooo
xxx xxo
oxx ooo
?

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 Post subject: Re: Help With Triplet
PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2018 10:39 pm 
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Yes Jim that’s it but my problem is my change from the C to E lacks pace and crispness however much I practise so I am looking for an alternative.
Cheers


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 Post subject: Re: Help With Triplet
PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2018 4:10 am 
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Location: Surrey/Hants border, England
Hold the whistle with middle & ring finger, left hand, then just slap down the other fingers & lift off again, doing that raises it OK for me. :wink:

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Trying to do justice to my various musical instruments.


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 Post subject: Re: Help With Triplet
PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2018 4:22 am 
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Are you practicing at a slow tempo? I'm sure you are, but it doesn't hurt to ask.

Let your muscles master the movement. The fingers for the C don't move. The other four pedal on and off as a unit. Once your fingers have it.... It's time to work on the breath control. Last is slowly increasing the tempo.

Maybe you will find some help in tunes that make of use of "pedaling." (At least that's what I call it.) like Tam Lin... Drowsy Maggie...

Practice does NOT make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect.

You got this.

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 Post subject: Re: Help With Triplet
PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2018 7:17 am 
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Yes fatmac is onto it, myself and many other whistle players use various fingerings for different situations.

While I would probably do my normal fingerings for that C-e-C passage
oxx ooo
xxx xxo
oxx ooo


if it was very fast and especially if crossfingered C natural on that whistle was sharpish anyway I might go
oxx xxo
xxx xxo
oxx xxo


in other words have my bottom hand finger E throughout, and only have to move one finger.

I'm not familiar with that tune, but I will say that triplets are more or less ornamentation and up to the whim of the player, and vary from player to player and to some extent from instrument to instrument.

I wouldn't do that triplet in all likelihood, but do some other ornament there that's more idiomatic to the whistle. (Unless it's more of a melodic thing and essential to the tune).

EDIT: I just looked that tune up.

There are various versions in G Major

https://thesession.org/tunes/11332

The first doesn't have a CeC triplet but the second version has a CdC triplet. Is that the spot your version has a CeC triplet? If so I might put a d in there like this version does, which I would finger

oxx oox
oxx xxx
oxx oox


moving those two raised bottom-hand fingers as a unit, a very easy passage to play cleanly.

(There's also at least one version of that tune in C Major that I would transpose and play on a C or G whistle.)

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1978 Quinn uilleann pipes
1945 Starck Highland pipes
Goldie Low D whistle


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 Post subject: Re: Help With Triplet
PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2018 11:15 am 
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I’m not a big fan of the half-holed C natural (mainly due to never giving it any real practice effort), but maybe it might work well for this triplet? Worth a shot, at least?
>00 000
XXX XX0
>00 000


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 Post subject: Re: Help With Triplet
PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2018 1:41 pm 
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Location: Burgdorf near Hanover, germany
Pancelticpiper's second proposal is exactly what I would do - it depends on your whistle if that fingering for Cnat works.
While many players nowadays want whistles that give a good Cnat oxx ooo and undergo the risk of having C# a bit flat, I much prefer whistles that require fingering oxx xox (not only because I'm mainly an uilleann piper) which normally give an in-tune C# - these whistles will usually also get you a decent Cnat fingered oxx xxo, which makes C-e-C triplets quite easy to play.
The fingering oxx xox makes the C-d-C triplet very easy, all you have to do is close and open your bottom hand middle finger.
However, it definitely is a good idea to try finding ways how to avoid that triplet, even if you can play it perfectly, just for the sake of not playing the tune the same each time around - it's much more interesting if you have different ways of playing certain passages so you can vary the tune every time you play it.


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 Post subject: Re: Help With Triplet
PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2018 5:17 pm 
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Well said, Mr. Cook.

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 Post subject: Re: Help With Triplet
PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2018 5:40 pm 
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Thanks Everyone for your continuing helpful advice.
Cheers


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 Post subject: Re: Help With Triplet
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 5:54 am 
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One might say that there are two approaches to whistle fingering:

1) a more "classical" or orchestral approach, based on open fingering (all the holes lower on the tube being kept open) and each note having a single correct fingering.

2) a more "folk" approach, based on semi-open fingering, where fingering is situational.

It was a revelation, back nearly 40 years ago when I was starting out on whistle and Irish flute, to hear my first teacher/mentor play The Kid On The Mountain playing those eBBe groups

xxx xxo (2nd octave E melody note)
xoo xxo (1st octave B melody note)
xxx xxo (two-finger pat, E gracenote)
xoo xxo (1st octave B melody note)
xxx xxo (2nd octave E melody note)

That is, keeping the lower hand fingering E throughout, and only moving two fingers as a unit, producing a wonderful passage in the middle ground between two B's separated by a pat, and a yodel-like alternating between E and B.

Mary Bergin and many trad players use a variety of fingerings, keeping down fingers that (classically) should be kept raised, to facilitate many passages, meaning that fewer fingers need to be moved.

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1978 Quinn uilleann pipes
1945 Starck Highland pipes
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