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The Chinese Knockoff Brigade are getting more ambitious!
http://forums.chiffandfipple.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=107382
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Author:  bigsciota [ Thu Oct 04, 2018 8:38 pm ]
Post subject:  The Chinese Knockoff Brigade are getting more ambitious!

It seems that there's a generic Killarney/Sindt-style whistle out there now, and not cheap either!

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Brass-Irish-6-Holes-Whistle-Treble-D-Flute-Feadog-Tin-Whistle-Metal-Pocket-Feadan-Musical-Instrument/32831836084.html

The pictures look fairly high-quality, although they still seem to be unsure which end is the business end (check out the second picture). Honestly, at first I thought that they were just selling Killarneys on AliExpress, maybe for the Chinese market. But a few differences from my own whistle, along with the slightly lower price points towards a knockoff. The blade/windway looks kind of odd as well, almost a wave pattern or something.

As an owner of the real deal, I'd be sort of interested in this one as a novelty/comparison, but the price is way too high. I see no reason whatsoever for anyone to get one of these, since at most you'd be saving about $10. It is curious, though, and either the market for whistles is larger than I thought, or these knockoff companies are getting more and more niche...

Author:  PB+J [ Thu Oct 04, 2018 10:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Chinese Knockoff Brigade are getting more ambitious!

I posted about those a while back. They look a lot like killarneys but with different tooling on the blade.

The economics are odd. It’s not really cheaper than a Killarney. And the they’re offering to sell me a feadog, or at least a whistle with a feadog sticker on it, for 39 US dollars which is roughly three to four times what it would cost here. Or they will sell me a “Feadan” which has a feadog sticker for 12 bucks, which is still no cheaper than they cost in the states. Or a “Jude” with a feadog sticker. There are a whole bunch of oddly named whistles with feadog stickers selling for the same US dollar price as feadogs.


Why are they ripping off feadog and not generation? Makes me wonder if feadogs are made in China. Although it could just be some guy likes feadogs and decide$ to copy them.


Very odd that there’s no low whistles. I’ve been trying to figure out where kerry whisltes are made for a while now.

Author:  kkrell [ Thu Oct 04, 2018 11:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Chinese Knockoff Brigade are getting more ambitious!

PB+J wrote:
I posted about those a while back. They look a lot like killarneys but with different tooling on the blade.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=106828&hilit=Chinese&start=15

Author:  Mr.Gumby [ Fri Oct 05, 2018 12:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Chinese Knockoff Brigade are getting more ambitious!

Quote:
there's a generic Killarney/Sindt-style whistle


As I said on an earlier thread: if one crowd can rip-off (the main elements of) the Sindt design, why can't another? Killarney opened that door, don't be surprised others decide to walk through it.

Author:  PB+J [ Fri Oct 05, 2018 6:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Chinese Knockoff Brigade are getting more ambitious!

Mr.Gumby wrote:
Quote:
there's a generic Killarney/Sindt-style whistle


As I said on an earlier thread: if one crowd can rip-off (the main elements of) the Sindt design, why can't another? Killarney opened that door, don't be surprised others decide to walk through it.



Not remotely surprised by the copying: puzzled by the choices and the pricing.

Why are Chinese manufacturers selling non-chinese made products?

or, if they are selling chinese copies/counterfeits, why are they pricing them the same as the actual thing? That's the odd part

Author:  david_h [ Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Chinese Knockoff Brigade are getting more ambitious!

Mr.Gumby wrote:
Killarney opened that door
The late Paul Hayward's Silkstone whistle heads had the same basic structure long before Killarney. Though the outer collar extends beyond the windway and the machining on the ramp is different. He did say that "the mouthpiece design may not be unique" which I assumed was a reference to Sindt, and maybe others.

Author:  Mr.Gumby [ Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Chinese Knockoff Brigade are getting more ambitious!

david_h wrote:
Mr.Gumby wrote:
Killarney opened that door
The late Paul Hayward's Silkstone whistle heads had the same basic structure long before Killarney. Though the outer collar extends beyond the windway and the machining on the ramp is different. He did say that "the mouthpiece design may not be unique" which I assumed was a reference to Sindt, and maybe others.


I am not sure it is I can see what you mean but the silkstone appears from that family of whistles that uses the edge of the tube to split the airstream, rather than having a machined window like the Sindt. Caveat: I only have an small image (below) to go by.

Image

Author:  david_h [ Fri Oct 05, 2018 8:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Chinese Knockoff Brigade are getting more ambitious!

I only have photos of the Sindt and Killarney to go off - but I have an alloy Silkstone in my hand. Am I right that on the Sindt/Killarney the sharp end of the ramp is curved like the windway (not a 'blade' as on most plastic headed whistles)?

If so the basic contruction is the same but rather than having a long ramp with a 'wall' machined out of the metal head the Silkstone has a wall formed by an extension of the outer collar and the head is machined down to nearer the diameter the tube - it is the same piece of metal that forms the sides of the windway

So, OK, its different, but not much different.

Author:  Mr.Gumby [ Fri Oct 05, 2018 8:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Chinese Knockoff Brigade are getting more ambitious!

Best not to distract the thread any further.

Image

Author:  bigsciota [ Fri Oct 05, 2018 8:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Chinese Knockoff Brigade are getting more ambitious!

Mr.Gumby wrote:
Quote:
there's a generic Killarney/Sindt-style whistle


As I said on an earlier thread: if one crowd can rip-off (the main elements of) the Sindt design, why can't another? Killarney opened that door, don't be surprised others decide to walk through it.


I'm more surprised that it's worth their while to do so. Obviously there is a very fluid concept of IP in whistle design, and there's certainly no outrage here that someone else would be making a generic one. I just didn't realize that there was enough of a market for a mass manufacturer to make $85 whistles like that. $30 ukes and $10 Gen clones, yeah, but it doesn't seem super profitable to go up against a much better established maker at the same price point. Maybe it is, that's why I'm not an instrument manufacturer...

Author:  Kade1301 [ Fri Oct 05, 2018 8:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Chinese Knockoff Brigade are getting more ambitious!

Is AliExpress mainly aimed at the European/American market? Because otherwise they could try to sell "locally", i. e. to Asian customers who may never have heard of Killarney. Though somebody seems to have gotten the idea that Feadog is to Irish whistles what Hoover is to vacuum cleaners and Kleenex to tissues ;)

Author:  Mr.Gumby [ Fri Oct 05, 2018 8:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Chinese Knockoff Brigade are getting more ambitious!

Quote:
I just didn't realize that there was enough of a market for a mass manufacturer to make $85 whistles like that.


Killarney seem to be churning them out. You see an awful lot of them around. So the market is there (even if it won't be huge by some standards).

Image

I don't know what sort of outfit is behind the Chinese product, it doesn't need to be a huge manufacturer. Perhaps they are just sounding out how they go. If they have good wholesale prices and they get places like Thomann or even McNeela to pick up on them, they'll be flying it.

Author:  bigsciota [ Fri Oct 05, 2018 12:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Chinese Knockoff Brigade are getting more ambitious!

PB+J wrote:
Why are they ripping off feadog and not generation? Makes me wonder if feadogs are made in China. Although it could just be some guy likes feadogs and decide$ to copy them.


It's worth noting that "feadóg" is Irish for whistle, so they may not necessarily be trying to copy the brand.

Author:  Mr.Gumby [ Fri Oct 05, 2018 12:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Chinese Knockoff Brigade are getting more ambitious!

Most whistles from China try make connections to other brands: Feadan and Feadóg usually. That's no coincidence. See their Chinese Feadógs: here, for example.

Author:  busterbill [ Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Chinese Knockoff Brigade are getting more ambitious!

Does the windway look wobbly on these? I haven't the energy to go downstairs and dig out my whistles, but I don't recall seeing a windway like the one pictured. Looks can be deceiving. Both the Sindts and the Killarnys have a lot of heft to them. I wonder if the chinese factory invested in the right metals. I am also sort of paranoid about chinese plastics and metals in my mouth. Their safety records for nasty stuff has never been good. And I agree with everybody their prices seem odd.

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