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 Post subject: Micho Russell Book
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2018 9:52 pm 
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Is the book "The Piper's Chair" by Micho Russell a difficult book to find? If I contacted some book shops in Ireland, would it be likely that they would have a copy, or is it a more obscure title?


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 Post subject: Re: Micho Russell Book
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2018 10:48 pm 
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I think it's obscure. 33 pages.

Someone is selling one on Amazon, not cheaply:
https://www.amazon.com/Pipers-Chair-Col ... 0946005419

A couple listed, slightly less:
https://www.abebooks.com/9780946005413/ ... 005419/plp

https://www.abebooks.com/servlet/Search ... tion+tunes

Also in a couple of libraries:
http://www.worldcat.org/title/pipers-ch ... c/32718106

Looks like you can read it if you are a member of Open Library:
https://openlibrary.org/works/OL9673289 ... er's_Chair

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 Post subject: Re: Micho Russell Book
PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2018 12:25 am 
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There are two volumes. One published by Ossian, the other by Micho himself. Micho had several other booklets along the same line that he sold.

Michael Coady's 'Well of Spring Water' about Pakie and Micho is one to read as well.

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 Post subject: Re: Micho Russell Book
PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2018 4:47 am 
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The library of Congress has a copy of the first one. It’s been digitized but whoever owns the rights hasn’t allowed either display or sale.

It’s puzzling—a digitized copy exists. The owner of the rights to the Micho book or the Coady book could, with virtually no labor and no capital costs to them, make it available as a kindle or ebook. Not clear to me why people don’t take advantage of this more often.

It’s a relatively small market of readers, so I can see why no print run, but a digital edition is close to cost free.

Edit. The library of Congress has the coady book too and it’s been digitized, by google books


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 Post subject: Re: Micho Russell Book
PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2018 5:40 am 
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Not clear to me why people don’t take advantage of this more often.


In general : perhaps they are not interested or just don't want to (People are still onto me regularly about a certain CD. Don't get me started on the subject.).

In the case of the Micho books: Ossian publication went bust and Micho stopped selling his own books when he died. There's really no incentive for anyone else to do it (rights issues aside).

Things get passed on informally though, rather than made publicly available.

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 Post subject: Re: Micho Russell Book
PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2018 6:55 am 
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Sure, but the digital copy languishes unread by people who might be interested because of ambiguous rights claims.

In my profession this is actually a huge deal—who has, or claims, rights to old books has a lot to do with the kinds or research you can engage in. I published a book in which I wanted to use an image from the New York Times in 1903. My publisher required me to secure permission, even though the image was far out of any possible copyright. The New York times is now only available in a digitized copy, or on microfilm, and pro quest historical newspapers wanted to charge me $3000 for the right to use an image from 1903. I found a different image.

It’s not simply a matter of casual indifference. Anyone could easily argue that Micho’s books form part of the historical record of Irish culture, and lacking an heir, they belong to the public and are part of a public heritage. Google is likely waiting for a moment when it can simply assume ownership and start charging for access. At that point, aspects of Ireland’s cultural heritage will belong to google.

The library of Congress is 15 minutes away from me, so I can go read it there, but it’s a few keystrokes away from being universally available to anyone who has an interest. No one’s ox would be gored, since there is no owner. I’m sure there is an Irish cultural entity that could make the case.


Last edited by PB+J on Sat Sep 29, 2018 2:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Micho Russell Book
PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2018 9:31 am 
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It’s not simply a matter of casual indifference. Anyone could easily argue that Micho’s books form part of the historical record of Irish culture, and lacking an heir, they belong to the public and ar part of a public heritage.


You're not talking about owner-less historic publications here. This is material barely twenty years out of print, readily available from libraries.

I have no idea who owns the rights to The Piper's Chair after Ossian folded. I am sure the estate of John Loesberg has been sorted. I imagine The Piper's Chair #2 belongs either to the Russell family or Denis Winter under whose Canal Press imprint it was published and I don't think it's anybody's business but theirs to decide what to to with these publications. And if they are not interested or don't see any benefit coming from any effort they will have to make, then that's entirely their business.

Michael Coady doesn't seem too keen on re-printing although there was some hope after Gussie's death he might write a similar piece on him as he did on the other two brothers and publish an extended edition of the book. But it's a highly personal account and I can imagine why someone would not want to hand over control of that sort of material to whatever entity that wants to take control of it.

I sort of have a foot in both camps, as a matter of principle I strongly favour availability and access and all that. On the other hand I have generated material people seem to feel entitled to have access to. There's the CD people that keep telling me is easily made available for digital download and that, well, they're basically entitled to having it available. Well, that's not their call to make. And there's other stuff that's been used and re-used and gone on the internet that I am not happy with at all, calls made by people who's call it wasn't to make. So my barbs go up when this sort of argument starts.


As for digital versions, the OP can have PDFs of the book(s) and various Micho related items, if he wants them. That's not the issue.

On another note, Tom Munnelly's booklet of Micho's songs 'Micho's dozen' is available on the Clare library website, has been for years: here

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Last edited by Mr.Gumby on Sat Sep 29, 2018 2:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Micho Russell Book
PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2018 11:43 am 
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I feel obliged to point out that at no time did I say people should not get paid. My point here is that IF there are heirs they could make some money: if there are not heirs Ireland could make a piece of its cultural heritage available. What seems pointless is for the book to exist as a digital file but not be available. That serves no ones interests.


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 Post subject: Re: Micho Russell Book
PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2018 12:09 pm 
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Quote:
I feel obliged to point out that at no time did I say people should not get paid. My point here is that IF there are heirs they could make some money: if there are not heirs Ireland could make a piece of its cultural heritage available. What seems pointless is for the book to exist as a digital file but not be available. That serves no ones interests.


It's not about money. Not everything is. I have stacks of books and recorded material sitting here, commercially recorded and informal (field recordings if you like). And tens and tens of thousand of images for that matter. It''s not pointless, it can, and does, get shared even if it's not publicly available. Most traditional musicians have all manner of material, it gets passed on and put to good use, as they, and only they, see fit. And I know that, I have been the recipient of such encouragement when I set out, Breandán Breathnach and others moving recordings my way, musicians, friends have invited me into their homes and played their music freely. It's nobody's business to say it should all be thrown out on the internet for all and sundry.

A short while ago I was talking to Mick O'Connor about recordings. Mick has done invaluable work teaching music, encouraging musicians and recording little known players at at time (to use Myles' phrase) when it was neither popular nor profitable. At some point he mentioned giving tapes to developing players and how it was an acknowledgement they were ready to absorb the material, an encouragement in itself. It's the living hand of the tradition. It's a particular ethos. Just shoving it all out on the internet devalues that.

Other issues as well but never mind those now, we're veering off-topic enough as it is.

So sorry, I feel strongly about these things

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 Post subject: Re: Micho Russell Book
PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2018 1:03 pm 
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Post edited after Mr.Gumby edited his before I finished mine, but basically agreeing with him here...

The fault (and this is not directed at PB+J) regarding some things no longer described above is with a culture of facility (driven by powerful cheap tools such as phones and internet space as well as thoughtless expectation and habit) where folk now think everything's fair game and what's ours is free to share without asking.

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 Post subject: Re: Micho Russell Book
PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2018 1:09 pm 
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You're right. At some point someone, a member here in fact, came to the house. I offered to give him some recordings and asked what he'd like 'sure put it all on there' he said handing over the iPod. I though, but didn't say 'You do realise it took me over thirty years getting all that, being drip fed and given time to fully absorb the music in small doses'.

I sometimes lament there's just too much available at the moment to take all in. There was a time I had perhaps three hours of Seamus Ennis' music and perhaps another ten hours of other non commercial recordings. But I knew every note on those recordings. Isn't it great reaching an age where you can give out like this ? :P Ah the days when we were young, when ships were made of wood and the men were made of steel, to paraphrase yet someone else. Or the one about knowing the price of everything but the value of nothing. :D

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 Post subject: Re: Micho Russell Book
PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2018 1:19 pm 
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Mr.Gumby wrote:
Or the one about knowing the price of everything but the value of nothing. :D

Good old Oscar Wilde; always dependable for the trenchant quip. It was in definition of the cynic, but perhaps these days the definition could be expanded to include consumer culture? :)

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 Post subject: Re: Micho Russell Book
PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2018 1:53 pm 
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Thanks to all for the helpful replies!


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 Post subject: Re: Micho Russell Book
PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2018 2:14 pm 
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Mr.Gumby wrote:
You're right. At some point someone, a member here in fact, came to the house. I offered to give him some recordings and asked what he'd like 'sure put it all on there' he said handing over the iPod. I though, but didn't say 'You do realise it took me over thirty years getting all that, being drip fed and given time to fully absorb the music in small doses'.

I sometimes lament there's just too much available at the moment to take all in. There was a time I had perhaps three hours of Seamus Ennis' music and perhaps another ten hours of other non commercial recordings. But I knew every note on those recordings. Isn't it great reaching an age where you can give out like this ? :P Ah the days when we were young, when ships were made of wood and the men were made of steel, to paraphrase yet someone else. Or the one about knowing the price of everything but the value of nothing. :D



I can't help but feel like I'm being made to stand in for someone else, someone who is making an argument I'm not making. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Micho Russell Book
PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2018 2:26 pm 
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Nothing like a bit of venting every now and again :P

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