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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 2:50 am 
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Hi Folks, I make Shearwater Whistles and would like to clear up a misconception that I was told about by a customer. Someone posted that we DO NOT accept returns of whistles. This is not strictly true. If a whistle is faulty ( rare but can happen), wrong whistle sent by mistake ( has happened but rarely), whistle not playable by player as too big a la Bass As then of course we accept returns. We do our utmost to help and communicate with our valued customers and in 99.99% can work through any issues that may arise. Any mention of non returns is to discourage those who, and there are people out there, who will buy products just so they can return them. Also we cannot really be responsible if a person does not have the capabilities to play!! Bass whistles being the exception. It is a hastle for sellers when this happens as we then have to go through the refund process. Technically with woodwinds due to health reasons they are not returnable but in reality this is impossible. All our whistles are tested for tuning and playability before shipping but sometimes things may slip through. We are not perfect, we are human. Hope this clears up this misconception. We produce value for money instruments for the happy amateur to the professional. All individually handmade.

By the way, we now make soprano brass whistles.
http://www.shearwaterwhistles.com


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 3:07 am 
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This is not strictly true. If a whistle is faulty ( rare but can happen), wrong whistle sent by mistake ( has happened but rarely), whistle not playable by player as too big a la Bass As then of course we accept returns.


You're in the UK. For the time being you're bound by EU consumer rights Which include the right to change your mind withtin 14 days or a cooling-off period , i.e. you'll have to accept returns and give refunds in that period , no questions asked. Consumer rights are also very clear about returns in case of faulty goods and items not being as advertised. These apply to all online sales within the EU.

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Last edited by Mr.Gumby on Sun Sep 02, 2018 3:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 3:10 am 
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Mr.Gumby wrote:
Quote:
This is not strictly true. If a whistle is faulty ( rare but can happen), wrong whistle sent by mistake ( has happened but rarely), whistle not playable by player as too big a la Bass As then of course we accept returns.


You're in the UK. For the time being you're bound by EU consumer rights Which include the right to change your mind withtin 14 days or a cooling-off period , i.e. returns have to be accepted and refunds given in that period , no questions asked.

I didn't know that! Gosh! Seems a bit unfair, tbh.

EDIT: I've just looked up the law, and I thought this wasn't the case - but see below. If the goods are as described, and fit for purpose, the supplier has absolutely no obligation to take them back or to give a refund (except where they've been bought online). Many suppliers do, but in law there is not obligation to. For a refund to be given as of right, the goods must be faulty or otherwise unfit for purpose.

Bugger. I'm changing my mind again! It's different for online purchases, where there is indeed a cooling off period. Oh, good grief! This is so complicated!

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 3:17 am 
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This is so complicated


It really isn't. The rules for online purchases (and sales) are quite clear.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 3:18 am 
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I've also now noticed that if there is any degree of personalisation of the goods, then the supplier has no obligation to take them back. There are loads of other exceptions as well. I mean, loads. Strange ...

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 3:36 am 
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Mr.Gumby wrote:
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This is so complicated


It really isn't. The rules for online purchases (and sales) are quite clear.

You're right. It's obviously me being a bit of a bear with little brain this morning. Online generic: automatic 14 day cooling off period; personalised: no automatic right to return; bought at a shop: no automatic right to return. Not so hard.

And please do tell me if I'm still being stupid!

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 5:07 am 
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I have a feeling that the 'online sales' 14 day cooling off period is for when someone asks/persuades you to buy a product - pensions/windows/door sales persons - pressure sales - as against when you ask to buy/order goods.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 5:10 am 
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I have a feeling that the 'online sales' 14 day cooling off period is for when someone asks/persuades you to buy a product - pensions/windows/door sales persons - pressure sales - as against when you ask to buy/order goods.



No. It applies to all online shops. I supplied a link to a website explaining basic consumer rights for online buyers. Read.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 12:24 pm 
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@Shearwater Whistles

I'd get some legal advice on this. I am not a lawyer, but would make the following observations which I would be inclined to follow up if I were selling:

- Woodwind instruments are not automatically exempt from the Distance Selling Regulations. There needs to be a proper hygiene seal, which if broken would remove the obligation to accept a return request (within 14 days of delivery, though this could be up to 2 years - see below).

- If you do not inform the buyer (in UK/EU) of their right to request a return of the goods within 14 days of receipt, then the period is one of up to 2 years, or for 14 days after you inform them of their right. Since I don't see any info on your website or in the buying process, I can only hope that you send that information out with the whistle itself.

Again, I'm not a lawyer, but I can read the Government advice pages, and I'm well aware that there are many pitfalls for online selling having set up web shops for clients in the past.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2018 1:56 am 
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ecadre wrote:
- If you do not inform the buyer (in UK/EU) of their right to request a return of the goods within 14 days of receipt, then the period is one of up to 2 years, or for 14 days after you inform them of their right. [..]
Interesting. So that's why I nearly always get emailed a form about the 14 days return period, when I order something online. They even email it before they email the order confirmation, sometimes.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2018 4:06 am 
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Thanks for your comments, however we DO always adhere to the 14 day cooling off period. We know full well of all the regulations as we would not be able to sell online otherwise. Out or 1000s of whistles sold probably only had issues with about 3 or 4 whistles if that. Sometimes customers buy and then change their minds so get an instant refund. BIt of a pain but there you go. No legal advice is needed. Fortunately most buyers are decent and understanding but occassionally you will get one from left field. Laws are stacked against sellers and we have virtually no rights. Our sales and positive feedback and lack of returns all speak for themselves. Was clearing up the misconception of NOT accepting returns. It is also up to the buyer to understand the laws.

What we want to try and avoid are the 'tyre kickers' out there who buy items just so they can return them. They are out there. It's a hastle for sellers and a plain nuisance. Thankfully we have had precious few, if any of these types of people. Any goods sold on the internet have to be returned in same condition as they were sent. Any damage or alteration voids the 14 day cooling off period. Also if you custom make something to suit the customer then the same applies but in reality we are not inflexible!!


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