Chiff and Fipple Forums

Matt NQ wrote:

Tommy wrote: For a soprano whistle I believe a tuning slide with a wall thickness of 2 mm would work.

I'm intending to make low & alto whistles, so might need a bit thicker.
BTW Tommy, I clicked on the link in your signature to have a look at some of your other whistles, but most of the photos there have disappeared. What happened? I notice the same thing in the "Photos of your collection!" thread. Why have so many photos disappeared on C&F?

For many years I was using Photobucket to host my pictures for free. Then they started wanting a fee. I opted to look for other free hosting and my pictures from Photobucket have been disappearing. You can find a few mixed in with other makers by searching on Google ''Tommy Dion whistles of wood.

After reading your thread again it seems you want to find out if a metal tuning sleeve will change the whistle sound of a wood whistle. Metal V wood whistles has been debated several times here on C&F? They both will make music. Which is better is for the player to decide.

Tommy wrote: It is a soprano D. There is no tape or cork, just super gule to reinforce the thin tenon. I wanted as you do all the air column passing through wood with as small a step of resistance as possible.
For a soprano whistle I believe a tuning slide with a wall thickness of 2 mm would work.

As a research project, I made several all-wood tunable whistles from a piece of crepe myrtle my father-in-law cut for me. It's low density (maybe around 0.5-0.55), but hard and fine-grained, albeit very hairy. My standard design has a 2 mm wall, so I split the difference and made the slide with a 1 mm wall, male and female. I have a reinforcing ring around the female part that's, I think, dogwood, maybe walnut or cherry (also all cut down by me or friends/relatives). None has had any problems, although they're all still in the garage, so haven't been subjected to, say, a wood stove-heated living room. I keep meaning to finish them up and list them for cheap.

chas wrote: My standard design has a 2 mm wall, so I split the difference and made the slide with a 1 mm wall, male and female.

Interesting that such thin wooden walls seem viable. How did you manage the actual sliding chas? Just wood against wood? Cork? Tape?

Matt NQ wrote:

chas wrote: My standard design has a 2 mm wall, so I split the difference and made the slide with a 1 mm wall, male and female.

Interesting that such thin wooden walls seem viable. How did you manage the actual sliding chas? Just wood against wood? Cork? Tape?

It's just wood against wood, total length about 1 cm, usable sliding distance maybe 4 mm, which is around 30 cents. I haven't picked one up in ages; will see if any still work this weekend.

Cheers,

Hi Matt NQ

Just happened to be wandering by, keeping an eye on what you whistle players and makers are up to, and noticed a mention of my stuff on wood-encased metal tuning slides. Those comments were made in the flute context, where the slides are around 19-21mm in diameter (3/4" - 13/16"), and whereas the same principles apply at smaller diameters (e.g. a treble d whistle), the degree isn't as severe. But, since I note you are also thinking larger whistles, it's still worth doing what you can to avoid the issue.

All the more important if your part of the Sunny North is a high humidity area. You send a whistle to Arizona and you should be just about able to hear it crack from home!

Great to hear you're gearing up to make whistles. When I first made Irish flutes back in the seventies, I had trouble finding anyone who wanted one, and they of course had trouble finding me. Nowadays, providing you have access to the Internet and a Post Office, you're set!

Drop in if you're in our area. It's only 3 to 4 days driving....

Terry McGee wrote:
Drop in if you're in our area. It's only 3 to 4 days driving....

Is there a bridge or ferry from the mainland now that we can use?

"The mainland"? (Why do I wonder if I'll regret questioning......)

Terry McGee wrote:Hi Matt NQ

Just happened to be wandering by, keeping an eye on what you whistle players and makers are up to, and noticed a mention of my stuff on wood-encased metal tuning slides... All the more important if your part of the Sunny North is a high humidity area. You send a whistle to Arizona and you should be just about able to hear it crack from home!

Great to hear you're gearing up to make whistles. When I first made Irish flutes back in the seventies, I had trouble finding anyone who wanted one, and they of course had trouble finding me. Nowadays, providing you have access to the Internet and a Post Office, you're set!

Drop in if you're in our area. It's only 3 to 4 days driving....

Thanks for highlighting the humidity issue Terry. Indeed all the more reason to avoid designs that invite cracks... You're in a beautiful part of the world there - I have spent a little time around Tilba. Once I'm up and running and would have something to show you and dissect, and if the universe leaves me in Sydney with transport, would love to drop in and check out your workshop and enjoy a yarn.

At the moment I'm struggling with simple things, like drilling long straight holes on the lathe for bores - my 22mm Colt Forstner bit wandering about 3mm sideways over 350mm at present... there's a relaxed part of me that says it's okay, just leave the outside thick and use the new centres, but I don't like wasting the wood... I'm sure I'll work it out

Matt NQ wrote:Thanks for highlighting the humidity issue Terry. Indeed all the more reason to avoid designs that invite cracks... You're in a beautiful part of the world there - I have spent a little time around Tilba. Once I'm up and running and would have something to show you and dissect, and if the universe leaves me in Sydney with transport, would love to drop in and check out your workshop and enjoy a yarn.

Good, it's a plan then. You'd be very welcome. Let me extend that invite to others interested in the instruments and the processes of making them.

At the moment I'm struggling with simple things, like drilling long straight holes on the lathe for bores - my 22mm Colt Forstner bit wandering about 3mm sideways over 350mm at present... there's a relaxed part of me that says it's okay, just leave the outside thick and use the new centres, but I don't like wasting the wood... I'm sure I'll work it out

OK. Check out "gun drills" on line. They self centre. Arguably the only good thing ever to come out of the munitions industry!

(There is a story, and I don't know the truth of it, that the bore of a military fife is the same as the bore of the rifle carried by the player. For some reason the number 0.444 enters my head. Hopefully nothing else of 0.444 caliber is going to enter my head...)

You may be able to pick up a suitable gun drill on Ebay, or you'll find makers on line. You don't need one for every size of bore you want to drill, but at least get the minimum size and then you can use other simple tools to expand the hole to the desired size. We can chat about options there.

The traditional self centering tool is the "shell augur" - traditionally used to put the long cable hole up the inside of the turned lounge-room standard lamp. I used them back in the early days. Easy to use in pine and other furniture timbers; not so easy in blackwood!

Terry McGee wrote:
You may be able to pick up a suitable gun drill on Ebay, or you'll find makers on line. You don't need one for every size of bore you want to drill, but at least get the minimum size and then you can use other simple tools to expand the hole to the desired size. We can chat about options there.

The traditional self centering tool is the "shell augur" - traditionally used to put the long cable hole up the inside of the turned lounge-room standard lamp. I used them back in the early days. Easy to use in pine and other furniture timbers; not so easy in blackwood!

Thanks again Terry! Never heard of a gun drill, but I will indeed have a look on Ebay. If augers are difficult in blackwood then I'm sure they'd be difficult in the hard tropical woods I'm planning to use. Starting with softer stuff at the moment - Qld maple - but I've got a stack of Cadaghi and Merbau, and a friend has some Purple Gidgee I have my eye on. Even if I can get the wandering down to half what it is now, that would be fine.

As far as simple tools to ream out a narrower bore go, I'm all ears. I've been thinking about using a junior hacksaw blade embedded at a slight angle in some very hard dowel, like Cadaghi, to try and taper the bore a bit. I do have visions of it exploding though...

I think the simplest reamer to make is the D-bit, so called because the cross-section takes the form of the letter D. I have seen suggestions of affixing a metal blade to a wooden body, but keep in mind the forces are pretty awful. Imagine planing african blackwood with a hand plane. Just about impossible. Now widen that plane to say 210mm (8") - the length of the LH section of a Rudall-style wooden flute. No!

A D bit can be made by turning a rod of the appropriate steel to the shape of the bore you have in mind, then cutting or milling almost one half of it away (the O cross-section becomes a D). Then smooth and sharpen the flat face so it will cut. So you need a metal lathe (or to find a chappie in the village with one.)

Thanks so much Terry. Just got hit with a $1600 dental bill, so the metal lathe may be a way off, but it's really good to know what my options are.

I've discovered the origin of some of the forstner bit wandering - loosening the locking screw on my lathe tailstock allows just a tiny bit of play, which when amplified at the end of a 400mm extended bit is quite significant. I've worked out that if I just loosen the locking screw a tiny bit only, it prevents a lot of the play and should limit the wandering. If I can get this working properly, I can start making some cylindrical whistles with the tools I've got, which feels like the right way to go for now.

Matt NQ wrote: I've discovered the origin of some of the forstner bit wandering

Have you checked if the tailstock is concentric with the headstock?

HI Matt,
Greetings from a fellow Queenslander , tho I'm in the SE in Burleigh Heads.Just read through this thread and a couple of thoughts arose:

I've seen beautiful NAF flutes down here in Australian woods, particularly silky oak. The bores are routed to the necessary depth in two halves then the sections glued together and turned to shape on a woodlathe. As we used to say about my uncle's toupee ,you can hardly see the join. I even saw one where the maker had used contrasting woods for the two halves with pleasing results. This method might solve your issues with the bit wandering and enables you to shape and polish the bore easily before final assembly.

There is also the issue of bore shape. David Daye's excellent webpage has a link to the Squinnter chanter here:

http://web.archive.org/web/200608311814 ... tml#Tuning

I've made a couple from cheap Tassie Oak strap from Bunnings, and they came out surprisingly well ( I mean for my levels of skill, rather than the idea/plans). Again I turned a profile on the woodlathe and put on mounts so that they looked more traditionally chanter-like than the original drawings. The bore remains square though and this method also enables you to taper effectively. Again you can hardly see the joins. The same method could be applied to whistles?

As to gundrills etc. Tyrone Head put up a set of tutorials on his website where he takes you through his method of whistlemaking. Very useful, and nice whistles. Check it out here:

http://www.theflutemaker.com/tutorials.php

More reading and R&D I know but I hope this helps

Tommy - yes, I have done a lot of work on alignment. I have a bed extension on the lathe, and had to get a digital inclinometer to get the alignment right. Need to do a few more bores on the weekend with the quill held better by the locking screw to see how much play is left.

Irish Muse - Thanks, Wow! Totally left field ideas for me, really interesting. Will indeed check out those links. I like doing R&D! Would never have thought of splitting the whistle body down the middle to do the bore, but it makes so much sense from a making point of view. I can imagine contrasting timbers looking quite funky! I'll have to put that on my list to try. This really is a lot of fun.