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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 3:19 pm 
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Had a repair in the workshop for my friend Karen in Victoria. She has a Copeland whistle that was irretrievably stuck at the tuning slide. All sorts of non-destructive techniques where used to no avail. Short of grabbing it with a pair of vice grips I decided to apply some heat to the joint to see if I could free it, using a micro torch. First the plastic plug and its pins were removed at the embouchure. It took considerable heat with the outer slide barely glowing (around 1000F). It came apart easily then, and the outer slide came off of its soldered joint to the lower part of the whistle. Unfortunately heating it this way caused the outer slide metal to become too soft for reuse. Fortunately the rest of the metal remained hard.

It was easy to make a new outer slide using some K&S brass tubing from the hardware store. Michael apparently used one of the standard sizes. Before I mounted it, per Karen's request, I did some of my engine engraving on it. It resoldered back on using the solder that remained on the lower body. Now the whistle is all good with a functioning tuning slide again.

Here is the result:

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Casey

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 7:30 pm 
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For others who encounter a stuck Copeland tuning slide, most of the time you can avoid the heat:

Hold the whistle in your hand, at or near the slide and preferably over a soft surface in case you drop it, the whack the outer slide tubing with a rawhide mallet. Rotate 90 degrees and repeat, as necessary till the frozen slide unseizes. You might want to use a towel to cover the part of the whistle you’re going to hitting with the mallet, to avoid any marks that would require polishing out, but use of the towel may cause you to have to use more blows to free the slide. Your choice.

This is the method recommended to me by Michael Copeland, and it has worked on every stuck Copeland slide I’ve come across, including a couple of low D’s I really had to wail on :swear: Never any damage done to the whistles though.

As with all repairs, only proceed if you are comfortable doing so.

Finally, only attempt this on the stock Copeland Whistles - if they’be been previously repaired using heat and/or had replacement parts made there is no guarantee that all the metal in the whistle is still hard enough to resist deforming from the mallet strikes.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 11:23 pm 
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Loren, the next time you communicate with Michael, run this additional step by him for comment. Put the whistle in the freezer/expose to dry ice. Wrap the outer portion of the slide with a washcloth soaked in extremely hot water or place briefly under running hot water, then proceed as you have described.The differential heating and expansion of the inner and outer slides may help loosen the gunk/corrosion binding the slide.

Bob

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 7:36 am 
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Bob,

I don’t communicate with Michael regularly, he gave me that advice years ago when I was still a full time professional woodwind maker and repair person. Don’t think I’ve had the pleasure of communicating with him since than, in fact. Shame really, particularly as I am also from Philly, but I haven’t been back to the city in many years.

People have suggested the cold/hot treatment before, and I did try that - minus the mallet blows - with at least one whistle prior to getting Michael’s advice. Didn’t work by itself, at least not for me. I don’t recall if I ever tried exactly what you propose, been more than a dozen years since I had to free a stuck Copeland slide.

BTW, for those reading: IME, Seriously stuck Copeland slides often tend to be caused by people using some sort of “lubrication” on the slide, which is to be avoided as the slide is meant to be a dry fit. If you’re a wet blower and tend to play right after eating and/drinking, that can also prove problematic if you don’t occasionally separate and clean the slide parts.

Finally, the slide fit will gradually become tighter over time as tarnish builds up on the slide parts. This is easy to remedy by using an appropriate metal polishing cloth on the slide parts to remove the tarnish. It’s surprising how many people attack a tight/tarnished slide with some other far more abrasive/destructive method like sandpaper :o when a quick and simple hand polishing will do.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 7:57 am 
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I bought a secondhand Copeland with a frozen tuning slide once. I grabbed both ends with rubber jar openers, and wiggled and pulled, and eventually it came free. Though, if it hadn't, I was going to definitely try Loren's advice (which I remembered from a previous thread).

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 8:24 am 
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Wanderer wrote:
I bought a secondhand Copeland with a frozen tuning slide once. I grabbed both ends with rubber jar openers, and wiggled and pulled, and eventually it came free. Though, if it hadn't, I was going to definitely try Loren's advice (which I remembered from a previous thread).


Yeah, for the non-professional repair person I’d say the rawhide mallet is the method of last resort before sending it to a pro, who’s probably going to start by hitting your precious whistle twice as hard as you did :lol:


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 8:03 pm 
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All of the above methods were tried with this whistle to no avail. The heat approach was okay. I'm more interested in what people think about the engraving. My friend Karen is thrilled with it!

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 5:43 am 
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Casey Burns wrote:
I'm more interested in what people think about the engraving. My friend Karen is thrilled with it!
I'd like to see it in the context of a full-length shot of the whistle to get the full effect. Glad your friend likes it (and it was her request), but while I love the patterns you've been using in your experiments, and on your flutes, this use doesn't appeal to me. In part, I cringe at such a modification to the maker's original aesthetic. There's a smoothness of line in Michael's design that I feel the engraving detracts from.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 6:32 am 
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I agree with Kevin, I feel the engraving looks out of place and detracts from the whistle’s original aesthetic. Particularly on what is one of the older, rare Philadelphia/Clover Leaf stamped Copelands. It should also be noted that both the repair and the engraving reduce the value of such a collectible. That said, if the customer is happy, well, it’s their whistle to enjoy as they please.

As for me, I’ve got a Philadelphia/Clover Leaf Copeland like the one pictured and I much prefer it as is, but hey that’s just me, and some will no doubt like the engraving.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:01 am 
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I did try a number of designs on this to get the best aesthetics possible. Its reversible if necessary - all one had to do is make a new barrel and solder it on. I refrained from engraving the original whistle parts. And I really had no choice in terms of making the tuning slide functional again which resulted in the destruction of the original.

Maybe the aesthetics is an East Coast vs. West Coat type of thing Loren. The people I have shown it to out here love it. Of course, we are a bunch of rule breakers and boundary pushers out here, compared with the rigid orthodoxy that I perceive from some of the East Coast makers (Olwell being a major exception). London is even worse in that department sometimes and some Early Musicians are the worst - which is why I avoided that path. Artists are commonly disparaged during their lives and only appreciated afterwards. One of the techniques of disparagement I've frequently noticed here in these forums is hijacking a discussion and going off topic, usually in a negative fashion.

I'd rather hear on what people think of it intrinsically and aesthetically as a design concept and a new idea, and not the moral question of the appropriateness of modifying a retired or deceased maker's work and making that aspect a part of the aesthetic discussion. That part of it was very carefully considered - for instance, I do not work on any of my still working contemporaries instruments and hope that they do not work on mine. Strictly Taboo.

Michael is retired so there was no possibility of sending it to him for repairs and Karen after all, owns this whistle and loves my engraving and made the request to add some.

I am more interested in suggestions of design instead of the appropriateness of the task. I am sure that many of my flutes will be modified by other makers or players to play better or worse, turned into wind chimes, table lamps, dog toys, or raw material for something else or simply burned up in the fireplace someday. A few will survive 3-5 centuries. As to this Copeland Whistle Design, what would you suggest engraving-wise besides just leaving it blank?

Casey

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:05 am 
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Casey Burns wrote:
As to this Copeland Whistle Design, what would you suggest engraving-wise besides just leaving it blank?

Casey

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The posibilites are endless. It will be to the customer and the engraver to decide. This subjective fact can also be dismised by they who wish to be known for being in the ''know all''.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:26 am 
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Casey Burns wrote:
I'd rather hear on what people think of it intrinsically and aesthetically as a design concept and a new idea,

It certainly is not any new idea. There were various past threads about engraving, although threads may have been lost with the forum switch over a few years ago. Search the forum whether discussions are still available. I love the engraving for museum pieces, but, wouldn't want to engrave on my personal whistle. To each their own.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:32 am 
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Before I mounted it, per Karen's request, I did some of my engine engraving on it. It resoldered back on using the solder that remained on the lower body. Now the whistle is all good with a functioning tuning slide again.


I don't see why there is any fuss about the engraving, it was asked for by the owner.

If you have one, you too can have it engraved - or not.

If it will put you off from buying it, then don't buy it.

If it caused a loss of tone, that would be another matter, but it didn't - & I believe the owner is, or will be happy with it, & that is all that matters.

:thumbsup:

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 4:36 pm 
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Casey Burns wrote:
I'm more interested in what people think about the engraving. My friend Karen is thrilled with it!


I actually like it! It reminds me of early 20th century wind instrument engraving styles.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 5:16 pm 
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These are most helpful and the designs people posted are lovely! I may just have to find a few various whistles and tweak them. I love Michael's whistles especially the low ones but wish he took my suggestion to make the latter in a version for small hands. Only possible on a tapered bore to be done right. I might have to try that myself sometime.

I have a C Generation that I will engrave this weekend. Just because I can.

These responses are much better than the off topic passive-aggressive snark that is common here (yes, I do that too!).

Casey

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