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 Post subject: Electronic whistle?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 8:34 am 
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This is probably a long shot, but has anyone ever come up with a silent practice electronic whistle? I’m on a week long family reunion and even a muted whistle tends to be loud enough to annoy somebody. I have a parks whistle with the adjustable ring and if it’s quiet enough to not be annoying it gets to be unplayable in the second octave.

The cyberwhistle was a cool idea, because it could sense half holing and slides, and jump an octave with blowing pressure. But it was developed twenty years ago and never seems to have come into any kind of commercial production. There’s not quite enough info online for me to imagine diy-ing a version myself.

Any suggestions?


Last edited by PB+J on Wed Jun 27, 2018 1:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Electronic whistle?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 10:56 am 
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It's probably not what you have in mind but I have seen the Fagerstrom technopipes over on YouTube. This is not an electronic whistle of course but it would give you a way to play some tunes without disturbing anyone. As far as I know they are battery operated, you just plug in a pair of headphones and away you go. There's a youtube post where someone plugged a set into a small practice amp and I thought they sounded quite authentic. If you can't find another option it may be worth having a look, depending on what you think of the sound of the pipes. As far as whistles go, I saw a phone app somewhere that was a virtual whistle. It looked a bit strange to me but could be worth a shot if it's free. Sorry I'm not much help with this reply,but if you are able to find what you're looking for please let us know on C&F I'm sure there are loads of us who could benefit from such a thing.


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 Post subject: Re: Electronic whistle?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 11:56 am 
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Reeldin58 wrote:
It's probably not what you have in mind but I have seen the Fagerstrom technopipes over on YouTube. This is not an electronic whistle of course but it would give you a way to play some tunes without disturbing anyone. As far as I know they are battery operated, you just plug in a pair of headphones and away you go. There's a youtube post where someone plugged a set into a small practice amp and I thought they sounded quite authentic. If you can't find another option it may be worth having a look, depending on what you think of the sound of the pipes. As far as whistles go, I saw a phone app somewhere that was a virtual whistle. It looked a bit strange to me but could be worth a shot if it's free. Sorry I'm not much help with this reply,but if you are able to find what you're looking for please let us know on C&F I'm sure there are loads of us who could benefit from such a thing.


As far as I know the Technopipes, and variations there of, use Highland Pipe fingering. I don't think they can be changed over to whistle fingering.

What you're looking for sound like a really cool idea, hope you find something...please let us know if you do. :thumbsup:

Piper Joe


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 Post subject: Re: Electronic whistle?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 12:14 pm 
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Location: Surrey/Hants border, England
Maybe something of this nature?

https://www.cmuse.org/best-electric-wind-instrument/

http://kk.org/cooltools/electronic-wind-instrument/

http://www.instructables.com/id/The-Electric-Flute/


Just found this one - http://www.cse.dmu.ac.uk/~dylan/z/dylan ... index.html

That looks like what you want. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Electronic whistle?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 1:48 pm 
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fatmac wrote:



Yes I mentioned that, the cyberflute. It allows you to half-hole as long as you’re in reasonable ambient light. It was never available commercially and it was developed twenty years ago, so some of the specific parts mentioned are not available. I checked! I don’t have the programming skills it seems to require

The wind controllers are easy to find but they have keys rather than holes and to my knowledge don’t allow for half holing, same with the electric flute—it uses switches. It’s might be better than not practicing but it should be possible to get something closer to a real whistle


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 Post subject: Re: Electronic whistle?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 2:19 pm 
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Check with Michael Eskin, a member here. He has a flute app that plays under Ios and Android.

Bob

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 Post subject: Re: Electronic whistle?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 7:37 pm 
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PB+J wrote:
I’m on a week long family reunion and even a muted whistle tends to be loud enough to annoy somebody.
I'd say you just need a different family.


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 Post subject: Re: Electronic whistle?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 8:07 pm 
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Tunborough wrote:
PB+J wrote:
I’m on a week long family reunion and even a muted whistle tends to be loud enough to annoy somebody.
I'd say you just need a different family.



My family is great. My whistling is not great


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 Post subject: Re: Electronic whistle?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 1:02 am 
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I had the technopipe with gaita fingering, then I switched to Degerpipe II+ because I needed to practice also French and medieval (German) fingering.

They both are excellent tool to practice bagpipes but they are not ideal to practice whistle, even using gaita fingering (which is pretty close to whistle fingering): it's not what they are made for. You are limited to 1 octave and a half, so you can't play the B part of most Irish tune without folding, and this may sound awkward. Also, no breath control (very important tool in whistling).

Reading some post on this forum I tried a Shush whistle: it's a Feadog (as mine) or a Generation, tweaked to be very quiet in order to practice without annoying people. I don't know if it's quieter than your muted whistle, for me is quiet enough to practice at home.


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 Post subject: Re: Electronic whistle?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:52 am 
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lucky141 wrote:
I had the technopipe with gaita fingering, then I switched to Degerpipe II+ because I needed to practice also French and medieval (German) fingering.

They both are excellent tool to practice bagpipes but they are not ideal to practice whistle, even using gaita fingering (which is pretty close to whistle fingering): it's not what they are made for. You are limited to 1 octave and a half, so you can't play the B part of most Irish tune without folding, and this may sound awkward. Also, no breath control (very important tool in whistling).

Reading some post on this forum I tried a Shush whistle: it's a Feadog (as mine) or a Generation, tweaked to be very quiet in order to practice without annoying people. I don't know if it's quieter than your muted whistle, for me is quiet enough to practice at home.



Thank you that’s what I suspected about the techno chanter. The Parks whistle can be muted very low but truly silent, with headphones, would be a big advantage.

It seems like it ought to be possible to use light dependent resistors as switches/gates in company with an Arduino to send midi information. There’s already code out there do do that. A pressure sensor in the mouthpiece could be used to trigger a blown second octave. It seems like it would be hard to manage things like tonguing, but it would respond to half holing and at least get you a blown second octave. The thing I’m imagining above would need to be hooked to a computer to produce sounds


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 Post subject: Re: Electronic whistle?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 5:12 am 
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PB+J wrote:
Thank you that’s what I suspected about the techno chanter. The Parks whistle can be muted very low but truly silent, with headphones, would be a big advantage.

It seems like it ought to be possible to use light dependent resistors as switches/gates in company with an Arduino to send midi information. There’s already code out there do do that. A pressure sensor in the mouthpiece could be used to trigger a blown second octave. It seems like it would be hard to manage things like tonguing, but it would respond to half holing and at least get you a blown second octave. The thing I’m imagining above would need to be hooked to a computer to produce sounds


I think there aren't any techno-whistles because it would be hard to recover the costs of making them. I don't perceive there is a large demand especially with how cheap normal whistles are.

That being said, you may check with Eskin to see if it would be possible to make an app with a whistle setting to be used with V-Pipes or if such an app already exists. He produced an app for Uilleann Pipe emulation. viewtopic.php?f=6&t=106724 . It may not be too difficult to put together what would be necessary for a whistle app and since he already has a developer license, it wouldn't be much more additional costs, just labor. (However, he too would have a cost issue: it would be very difficult for him to recover money on such an app, since again, whistles are pretty cheap.) It might be worth a shot.

Such a whistle would at least let you practice fingering with the audio feedback. Yes, it may not let you work on breath control so that may require additional discipline, but I think that will be true no matter what solution you find.


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 Post subject: Re: Electronic whistle?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 5:53 am 
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AaronFW wrote:
PB+J wrote:
Thank you that’s what I suspected about the techno chanter. The Parks whistle can be muted very low but truly silent, with headphones, would be a big advantage.

It seems like it ought to be possible to use light dependent resistors as switches/gates in company with an Arduino to send midi information. There’s already code out there do do that. A pressure sensor in the mouthpiece could be used to trigger a blown second octave. It seems like it would be hard to manage things like tonguing, but it would respond to half holing and at least get you a blown second octave. The thing I’m imagining above would need to be hooked to a computer to produce sounds


I think there aren't any techno-whistles because it would be hard to recover the costs of making them. I don't perceive there is a large demand especially with how cheap normal whistles are.

That being said, you may check with Eskin to see if it would be possible to make an app with a whistle setting to be used with V-Pipes or if such an app already exists. He produced an app for Uilleann Pipe emulation. viewtopic.php?f=6&t=106724 . It may not be too difficult to put together what would be necessary for a whistle app and since he already has a developer license, it wouldn't be much more additional costs, just labor. (However, he too would have a cost issue: it would be very difficult for him to recover money on such an app, since again, whistles are pretty cheap.) It might be worth a shot.

Such a whistle would at least let you practice fingering with the audio feedback. Yes, it may not let you work on breath control so that may require additional discipline, but I think that will be true no matter what solution you find.



I have a lot of DAW software that includes whistle samples and programs to control them. For example Logic Pro has a couple Irish whistle sample banks and can make a convincing sounding whistle. I have a midi guitar interface so I’ve actually been able to make whistle recordings using the guitar. Of course it does not play like a whistle even if it sounds like a whistle. So it seems like it would be simpler to just make a midi whistle controller. A self contained whistle, with its own onboard samples and analog to digital conversion, would be well beyond my skill level.

I wonder why the guy who makes the v-pipes can’t just make a whistle as well? I assume it’s the wind driven octave jump


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 Post subject: Re: Electronic whistle?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 9:24 am 
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PB+J wrote:
I wonder why the guy who makes the v-pipes can’t just make a whistle as well? I assume it’s the wind driven octave jump


Again: cost and price. V-pipes are still $1,200. Starting level Uilleann pipes are still about $2,000. So it is still reasonable for a piper.
But no whistle player is going to pay $1,200 for a whistle. So there is no way it is worth the time and money for development.


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 Post subject: Re: Electronic whistle?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:06 pm 
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PB+J wrote:
The wind controllers are easy to find but they have keys rather than holes and to my knowledge don’t allow for half holing, same with the electric flute—it uses switches. It’s might be better than not practicing but it should be possible to get something closer to a real whistle

There are wind controllers like the EWI that don't have keys, but you're right that it doesn't half hole. One that supposedly does is the Aodyo Sylpho : https://aodyo.com
And it supposedly has a whistle fingering mode.
I don't have one but have been following it.


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 Post subject: Re: Electronic whistle?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 6:03 am 
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jimhanks wrote:
PB+J wrote:
The wind controllers are easy to find but they have keys rather than holes and to my knowledge don’t allow for half holing, same with the electric flute—it uses switches. It’s might be better than not practicing but it should be possible to get something closer to a real whistle

There are wind controllers like the EWI that don't have keys, but you're right that it doesn't half hole. One that supposedly does is the Aodyo Sylpho : https://aodyo.com
And it supposedly has a whistle fingering mode.
I don't have one but have been following it.



Thank you yes I looked at the sylpho. It’s a very interesting idea and close to what I’m looking for but it’s very pricey and the form factor is odd. It’s trying to be more things, like the EWI.

What I’m thinking of is a “midi controller.” Something with no sounds of its own, but which sends a midi signal to a computer, which then maps the midi signal onto a sound. You can find midi controllers, usually keyboards or pads, for well under 100 bucks. An Arduino is 30 dollars, a pressure sensor is under ten, and six light dependent resistors. I think the hard part would be the programming. At least it would be the hard part for me. It can’t be just a simple on-off, there would have to be a continuous signal from the resistors to accomplish half holing.

The thing I’m imagingin would fit in a whistle, but with a small box attached in some way to house the Arduino board. Maybe just a cable comin out. There would have to be some way to release moisture without producing much of a sound. The Arduino board would need USB port and maybe a battery pack

Alternatively, skip the pressure sensor and just have a tongue activated switch to jump octaves. It would be less like a whistle then but it would make a bunch of things easier.


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