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 Post subject: Early Generations ID
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 12:03 pm 
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Watching lots of old videos, I notice that most whistlers seem to be using Generations and maybe that was just the most available whistle at the time but everyone seems to reference the pre-80s Generations as the "good ones". What happened and how can the early ones be identified (if you can find them) compared with the late models? Just curious.


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 Post subject: Re: Early Generations ID
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 12:28 pm 
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everyone seems to reference the pre-80s Generations as the "good ones"


The voicing was different, sweeter high end, quieter low end.

Best look up old threads, the question comes up Very Regularly. Ridge along the middle of the top/front of the mouth piece, round thingie at the back (a remnant of the mold). They're not hard to find, no need to pay more than a fiver, no guarantee it will be anything great though. You had t ohandpick the good ones from a batch then, just as you do now.

And yes, they were the only whistle available (well, clarkes aside).

Ah, g'wan then, I'll put this one up again for a few days :

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[edit/add]

It is probably easier to see the ridge in this one:

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 Post subject: Re: Early Generations ID
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 2:00 pm 
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Interesting, thank you! I had an idea where to look for old tin whistles, but unfortunately the Emmaüs in Angers had its "music" sale in March - no idea when the next one will come up.

Mind telling us what else is in the pictures? In the top one I suppose it's even older Generation Whistles (or is the second from the right another brand?) from before they made plastic mouthpieces - but what's the whistle with only two holes in the bottom picture?


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 Post subject: Re: Early Generations ID
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 2:22 pm 
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Mr.Gumby wrote:
Quote:
everyone seems to reference the pre-80s Generations as the "good ones"


The voicing was different, sweeter high end, quieter low end.

Best look up old threads, the question comes up Very Regularly. Ridge along the middle of the top/front of the mouth piece, round thingie at the back (a remnant of the mold). They're not hard to find, no need to pay more than a fiver, no guarantee it will be anything great though. You had t ohandpick the good ones from a batch then, just as you do now.

And yes, they were the only whistle available (well, clarkes aside).

Ah, g'wan then, I'll put this one up again for a few days :

Image


[edit/add]



It is probably easier to see the ridge in this one:

Image


Oh right, I can make out the ridge. Thanks

If it's ok to hi-jack my own thread, I grabbed a Clarke Sweetone the other day from a little mom'n'pop music store I found with the intention of having a spare whitle icking around in one of the vehicles. It plays well enough for me but that metal seam on the back is really annoying. Do they all have that or did I just luck out?


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 Post subject: Re: Early Generations ID
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 2:41 pm 
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Kade1301 wrote:
? In the top one I suppose it's even older Generation Whistles (or is the second from the right another brand?) from before they made plastic mouthpieces - but what's the whistle with only two holes in the bottom picture?


Top one = four Generations of different pre 1980 vintages. The one in the other pic is a tabor pipe, three holes, one on the back, same effect as taping over top three holes on a 'regular' whistle.

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 Post subject: Re: Early Generations ID
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 2:51 pm 
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Polara Pat wrote:
If it's ok to hi-jack my own thread, I grabbed a Clarke Sweetone the other day from a little mom'n'pop music store I found with the intention of having a spare whitle icking around in one of the vehicles. It plays well enough for me but that metal seam on the back is really annoying. Do they all have that or did I just luck out?

They're all like that.

Get tape,or get callouses :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: Early Generations ID
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 3:32 pm 
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The Lurking Fear wrote:
Polara Pat wrote:
If it's ok to hi-jack my own thread, I grabbed a Clarke Sweetone the other day from a little mom'n'pop music store I found with the intention of having a spare whitle icking around in one of the vehicles. It plays well enough for me but that metal seam on the back is really annoying. Do they all have that or did I just luck out?

They're all like that.

Get tape,or get callouses :wink:



Haha, thanks.I just worked some plasticine into the seam for now but may go so far to use body filler. Seems like such a fail in the design, considering how long they have been around.


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 Post subject: Re: Early Generations ID
PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2018 1:11 am 
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They are made from rolled sheet metal, that's how they can be conical (which supposedly makes for easier to reach high notes - like on baroque recorders). Soldering the cone flush together would probanly increase the price.

I love my Clarkes and am not bothered by the seam at all - could it be that you are grabbing the whistle too hard? Or maybe it's just that I'm spending enough time with gardening tools in my hands... ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Early Generations ID
PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2018 2:43 am 
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Mr.Gumby wrote:
...The one in the other pic is a tabor pipe, three holes, one on the back, same effect as taping over top three holes on a 'regular' whistle.


This is brilliant! I didn't know Generation made tabor pipes - when I looked for one recently I only found rather expensive hand-made ones.

Do you happen to have the Generation maker's website? I'm rather confused because I find what's supposed to be the same model - DBF3 and DNF3 (Generation Tabor pipes in brass and nickel respectively) with three holes at the front and with two holes at the front. I'm supposing in the latter case the third hole is in the back and I'm wondering which version is easier to play. And where to get an inexpensive tabor drum to go with it... And how the inexpensive version will sound...

For several years ago I heard somebody play pipe and drum as part of a recorder concert (in France the folk tradition of pipe and drum is still alive in some parts of the country) and it sound really nice - much better, to my ears, than solo wind instrument.


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 Post subject: Re: Early Generations ID
PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2018 3:46 am 
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Kade1301 wrote:
This is brilliant! I didn't know Generation made tabor pipes - when I looked for one recently I only found rather expensive hand-made ones.



I hadn't realised until recently they still make them. I used to see them sometimes during the seventies but hadn't seen them since. But these days I am not geographically in an area where they would be in demand so they dropped from view. The one in the picture was included in a batch of other stuff I got off ebay. There are a few offerings on ebay of their current model, in the €10-11 price range.


Susato do a range of them as well, Dixon too.

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 Post subject: Re: Early Generations ID
PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2018 9:33 am 
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Kade1301 wrote:
They are made from rolled sheet metal, that's how they can be conical (which supposedly makes for easier to reach high notes - like on baroque recorders). Soldering the cone flush together would probanly increase the price.

I love my Clarkes and am not bothered by the seam at all - could it be that you are grabbing the whistle too hard? Or maybe it's just that I'm spending enough time with gardening tools in my hands... ;)


No, I have a pretty gentle grip, I think it's just going to take some getting used to. A bead of solder is a good idea but realistically I'll probably just live with it like everyone else.


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 Post subject: Re: Early Generations ID
PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2018 9:44 am 
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Kade1301 wrote:
I didn't know Generation made tabor pipes - when I looked for one recently I only found rather expensive hand-made ones.

Those Generation ones are in D which gets pretty high pitched when you play in the upper registers—as you have to do in order to get the full scale. Looks like Dixon has one in G, considerably lower, according to this eBay advert

Best wishes.

Steve

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 Post subject: Re: Early Generations ID
PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2018 3:55 pm 
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Kade1301 wrote:
Mr.Gumby wrote:
...The one in the other pic is a tabor pipe, three holes, one on the back, same effect as taping over top three holes on a 'regular' whistle.


This is brilliant! I didn't know Generation made tabor pipes - when I looked for one recently I only found rather expensive hand-made ones.


For several years ago I heard somebody play pipe and drum as part of a recorder concert (in France the folk tradition of pipe and drum is still alive in some parts of the country) and it sound really nice - much better, to my ears, than solo wind instrument.


I know Susato still makes them, and while more expensive than a Generation
, they are still reasonable.http://www.susato.com/konakart/Tabor-Pi ... 8_-1_26.do I saw a beautiful wooden Flaviol on Ebay last year. It is a Spanish type of tabor pipe with 5-7 holes, four on the front and 1-2 thumb-operated holes on the back. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqtV1xxHh6w


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 Post subject: Re: Early Generations ID
PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 6:11 pm 
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Mr.Gumby wrote:
Quote:

The voicing was different, sweeter high end, quieter low end.

Best look up old threads, the question comes up Very Regularly. Ridge along the middle of the top/front of the mouth piece, round thingie at the back (a remnant of the mold). They're not hard to find, no need to pay more than a fiver, no guarantee it will be anything great though. You had t ohandpick the good ones from a batch then, just as you do now.


Hahaha! I had just asked less than a week ago whether the whistle I inherited from an ex was one of these fabled beasts, and lo and behold! here is the answer. I have a couple of additional comments.

First of all, I should point out that, if mine is any indication at all, the blue of the mouthpiece is *significantly* darker than it appears on photos. I haven't actually encountered any "modern-type" Generation nickel pennywhistles, but the ones on the Hobgoblin website look similar in colour to the ones posted by Mr Gumby and myself, so I think it might be the same. (The images at both the Whistle Shop and Generation's own website look a bit purple to me!)

What I think most people refer to as the "ridge" is the moudling seam, visible on both top and bottom of the mouthpiece on the older style instruments, and not on the newer ones. But there is also a slight angularity to the top as well, so that it looks like it's actually four planes sort of folded into a roundish shape -- hopefully that makes sense.

The "round thingie at the back" is shaped a bit like an elongated teardrop, with the pointier end upward, and is positioned just in front of where your lower lip goes when playing the whistle.

As for the sound, I can definitely speak for the sweetness of the high end: I've picked up a number of "cheap" whistles by now, and that old Generation is easily my favourite to play in the 2nd octave. The B is a bit shrieky (which could just be my whistle!), but everything lower is beautiful.

However, the low end is *not* that soft! I haven't compared it to a Susato or other legendarily loud whistles, so my opinion may not be worth much. However, between the old Gen, a new brass Gen, a Clarke original, a Sweetone, and an Oak, the old Gen is the *only* whistle I use for recording if I have any hope at all of hearing a low C. The others either just fade out or bark at me if I try to get any volume out of them.

I'm not sure whether I have one of the "good ones", but I'm definitely glad I've got mine!


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 Post subject: Re: Early Generations ID
PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2018 4:29 am 
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Quote:
However, the low end is *not* that soft!


I had the D (and perhaps the eflat) in mind when I referred to a quieter lower end. It's not soft, it's just that the newer version sought tp make it that bit louder. You have a C and they didn't change very much from pre to post 1980.

Here's a bunch of Cs, the three on the left are pre 1980, the one on the right a later one, later eighties/early nineties. The newer one has a slightly darker colour, colours vary a bit over time, I saw some in Custy's last week that were very much lighter than anything I have seen before. You can also see another distinguishing mark: the more recent one has has a slightly longer 'bump' at the bottom of the window. It is also, by some distance. the clearest player of the four (Which probably shows you have to look at these things on a case to case basis).



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