It is currently Wed Apr 25, 2018 8:46 am

All times are UTC - 6 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 33 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
 
PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 1:33 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2011 5:39 pm
Posts: 2646
Location: Kinlochleven
DrPhill wrote:
Anything with whistles?

Recorder and ocarina?

:-?

_________________
And we in dreams behold the Hebrides.

Why I teach... and where
Master of nine?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 1:38 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 19, 2008 11:58 am
Posts: 1324
Location: None
A recorder? Oh shine :oops: .
How about this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4niv522mbtM
0:32 - whistle or recorder?

_________________
Phill

Press any key to continue, any other key to exit.......


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 7:29 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 13, 2014 3:29 pm
Posts: 310
Location: Somewhere between Here and There.
DrPhill wrote:
A recorder? Oh shine :oops: .
How about this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4niv522mbtM
0:32 - whistle or recorder?


Looks like a whistle to me!

What's that at 2:30? Has a clarinet / single reed mouthpiece, but gets real funky down below!

_________________
-- A tin whistle a day keeps the racketts at bay.

-- WhOAD Survivor No. 11373


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 8:11 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2005 2:39 pm
Posts: 2797
Location: Yes
whistlecollector wrote:

Looks like a whistle to me!


Maybe a Susato?

_________________
''Whistles of Wood'', cpvc and brass. viewtopic.php?f=1&t=69086


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 4:21 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 19, 2008 11:58 am
Posts: 1324
Location: None
Whew, I thought it was a whistle.....

I stumbled on these videos and found them fascinating. I 'sort of liked' the music as a sound track, but seeing all these professionals and their varied instruments playing the music really opened my eyes. I think some of them were even enjoying themselves.

_________________
Phill

Press any key to continue, any other key to exit.......


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 5:37 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2011 5:39 pm
Posts: 2646
Location: Kinlochleven
whistlecollector wrote:
What's that at 2:30? Has a clarinet / single reed mouthpiece, but gets real funky down below!

Look and listen carefully where you see it at approx. 1:25 to 1:30; it's a recorder. The mouthpiece clamps together like the Hopf one I've got, but you can clearly see the window. So it's a modern keyed recorder... looks close enough (if not identical) to the photos of the Arnfred Strathmann system at http://www.recorderhomepage.net/history/innovations-in-recorder-design/ to suggest that it's some version of that.

You get a better view of the (almost certainly) Susato at 1:54 to 1:56.

_________________
And we in dreams behold the Hebrides.

Why I teach... and where
Master of nine?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 3:42 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 13, 2014 3:29 pm
Posts: 310
Location: Somewhere between Here and There.
Peter Duggan wrote:
whistlecollector wrote:
What's that at 2:30? Has a clarinet / single reed mouthpiece, but gets real funky down below!

Look and listen carefully where you see it at approx. 1:25 to 1:30; it's a recorder. The mouthpiece clamps together like the Hopf one I've got, but you can clearly see the window. So it's a modern keyed recorder... looks close enough (if not identical) to the photos of the Arnfred Strathmann system at http://www.recorderhomepage.net/history/innovations-in-recorder-design/ to suggest that it's some version of that.


Well, we live and we learn!

Keywork looks pretty dense on it, too, but I guess that's where the recorder has got to go if it wants to keep up with the other modernised / adulterated woodwinds.

_________________
-- A tin whistle a day keeps the racketts at bay.

-- WhOAD Survivor No. 11373


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 4:16 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2011 5:39 pm
Posts: 2646
Location: Kinlochleven
That one's basically got saxophone keywork. But note the opening statement on the excellent page I linked to:

'There have been a number of attempts to re-design the recorder and extend its capabilities for use in a contemporary context. However, even virtuosi have, for the most part, preferred instruments designed after historical (ie pre-classical) models.'

Which accords with my own perception that you can only go so far and still have a recorder (that feels like a recorder). I like some of the modern developments for modern purposes, but still prefer to play an instrument that fingers mostly the traditional way on open holes.

_________________
And we in dreams behold the Hebrides.

Why I teach... and where
Master of nine?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 7:28 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 13, 2014 3:29 pm
Posts: 310
Location: Somewhere between Here and There.
Peter Duggan wrote:
That one's basically got saxophone keywork. But note the opening statement on the excellent page I linked to:

'There have been a number of attempts to re-design the recorder and extend its capabilities for use in a contemporary context. However, even virtuosi have, for the most part, preferred instruments designed after historical (ie pre-classical) models.'

Which accords with my own perception that you can only go so far and still have a recorder (that feels like a recorder). I like some of the modern developments for modern purposes, but still prefer to play an instrument that fingers mostly the traditional way on open holes.


Certainly the whole period instrument movement --- the keyless recorder is right on the forefront there! But there are more modern musics that the recorder's unique voice could be applied to that benefit from its 200 year overdue overhaul!

And that page is indeed a delight to read! (In similar vein is http://www.oldflutes.com, but obviously for transverse flutes!) I have Innovations #5 & #8 and it's always interesting to read about such things.

_________________
-- A tin whistle a day keeps the racketts at bay.

-- WhOAD Survivor No. 11373


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 5:55 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 10, 2006 7:25 am
Posts: 3773
Location: WV to the OC
Peter Duggan wrote:
'There have been a number of attempts to re-design the recorder and extend its capabilities...even virtuosi have, for the most part, preferred instruments designed after historical (ie pre-classical) models.'

...you can only go so far and still have a recorder that feels like a recorder...that fingers mostly the traditional way on open holes.


Interesting to hear that what exists in the bagpipe and whistle worlds also exists in the recorder world.

Around 1900 the Highland pipe maker Starck introduced a fully keyed Highland pipe chanter, an "attempt to re-design and extend its capabilities" giving it an octave and and half chromatic range. But "even virtuosi preferred instruments designed after historical models" and the keyed chanter never caught on, and remains a mere historical curiousity.

All the time on these boards people ask about changing the Irish whistle to make it finger more like a recorder or more like a Boehm flute/Saxophone/clarinet and your quote above, regarding recorders, applies exactly.

I was talking to a bassoonist who was attracted to the Highland pipes due to their retaining their original keyless nature. He took some pride in the fact that the bassoon, alone among orchestral woodwinds, has resisted being Boehm-ised.

He told me that on a visit to Germany he played a prototype Boehm system bassoon. He said it was horrible.

_________________
Richard Cook
1978 Quinn uilleann pipes
1945 Starck Highland pipes
Goldie Low D whistle


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 8:10 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2001 6:00 pm
Posts: 935
Location: Clifton Colorado
Who needs levers and keys and extra holes? Who is locked into a genre?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MD82Mhaf5nY


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 12:59 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2011 5:39 pm
Posts: 2646
Location: Kinlochleven
whistlecollector wrote:
Certainly the whole period instrument movement --- the keyless recorder is right on the forefront there! But there are more modern musics that the recorder's unique voice could be applied to that benefit from its 200 year overdue overhaul!

pancelticpiper wrote:
All the time on these boards people ask about changing the Irish whistle to make it finger more like a recorder or more like a Boehm flute/Saxophone/clarinet and your quote above, regarding recorders, applies exactly.

In Woodwind Instruments and their History (1957), Anthony Baines wrote, 'Should the treble recorder prove too soft for a modern festival orchestra, then let somebody remodel it to be louder, as has been done with every other woodwind instrument in the course of the last one hundred and fifty years.' (I recall someone else later stating that this was to fundamentally misunderstand the instrument and/or revival, but can't currently locate the reference.) But we also have Edgar Hunt in The Recorder and its Music (1962) describing a keyed instrument by Louis Stien that he (Hunt) felt 'was a thoroughly professional instrument, but not a recorder.' He goes on to say, 'The recorder, which lends itself to cross-fingered semitones, does not need semitone keys; so M. Stien was right to invent an entirely new kind of fipple flute.'

So where do I stand? I'm all for cylindrical/enlarged bores, adjustable voicing (NB I never adjust the voicing on my Hopf), bell or echo keys, extended range, extended keyed foots etc., but see no need for (indeed perhaps only loss in) full key systems where the recorder is uniquely, fluently chromatic among keyless woodwinds... perhaps rivalled only by baroque flute in that respect where some chromatic notes on baroque flute are far more coloured by changing timbre. More projection and range is great, but at some point even down that line you lose 'the recorder's unique voice' and create something new instead. Something like Adriana Breukink's Eagle Recorder strikes me as about as far as you can take it as a 'recorder', but have to qualify that by admitting I've not actually tried one.

_________________
And we in dreams behold the Hebrides.

Why I teach... and where
Master of nine?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 12:25 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2005 2:39 pm
Posts: 2797
Location: Yes
Chifmunk wrote:
Mr.Gumby wrote:
Doesn't the praisewhistlers site cater for that?


There isn't much there of use it seems. The link to their 'message boards' doesn't work.


Today PWA is up and running again. :thumbsup:

_________________
''Whistles of Wood'', cpvc and brass. viewtopic.php?f=1&t=69086


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 4:34 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2018 4:44 am
Posts: 59
Location: France
Peter Duggan wrote:
....
In Woodwind Instruments and their History (1957), Anthony Baines wrote, 'Should the treble recorder prove too soft for a modern festival orchestra, then let somebody remodel it to be louder, as has been done with every other woodwind instrument in the course of the last one hundred and fifty years.' ....


That was before tiny microphones existed... If it's just a question of loudness, microphones should be the answer - Philip Bolton had equipped his recorders with microphones inside the bore for some time (but forgot to take out a patent) and now Mollenhauer have taken up the idea in the Elody. Which is a nice electro-acoustic instrument, but not for me...

On the other hand, I've heard good things aboutthe new Eagle Ganassi - hopefully I'll get a chance to try one someday. And Mollenhauer's Dream recorders are also reputed to be louder than more baroque models, but I've never found one I really liked.

For now I consider keys on alto and smaller recorders mostly superfluous (except for extending the range), but I have a tenor with bent neck and additional keys and I love it for its ease and comfort of playing. Despite once thinking that the interesting thing about a recorder was its "simplicity" of construction and relatively low price tag. But tenor is such a wonderful range and my hands are too small for comfortably playing keyless instruments of that size. (Does anybody make low whistles with keys? I'd expect them to be about the same size as a tenor recorder - true or false?)


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 7:41 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2005 2:39 pm
Posts: 2797
Location: Yes
Kade1301 wrote:
(Does anybody make low whistles with keys? I'd expect them to be about the same size as a tenor recorder - true or false?)


Yes. :thumbsup:
Jubilee Music Instruments & Crafts,
Daniel Bingamon, Maker of Tin Whistles, Folk Music Instruments, Electronics and Crafts.
Kings Mills, Ohio 45034
http://www.tinwhistles.us/jubilee/index ... page&id=33

http://www.tinwhistles.us/jubilee/pagesmith/36

_________________
''Whistles of Wood'', cpvc and brass. viewtopic.php?f=1&t=69086


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 33 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google and 7 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
[ Time : 0.097s | 14 Queries | GZIP : On ]
(dh)