Playing with a friend , her music in many keys, buy different keyed whistles?

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eedbjp
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Playing with a friend , her music in many keys, buy different keyed whistles?

Post by eedbjp »

I realize this is much more of a music theory question, but I thought I’d start here since it does relate to the whistle. I have a friend who plays piano accordion . When we get together we play about half our tunes in D, mostly Irish or Scottish tunes. But she likes to pull out some really interesting stuff, Balkan folk tunes, Greek folk, music from all around the world. Some of it’s really awesome music. In those cases I am trying to make sense of it by reading her sheet music, which I am able to do thanks to my high school music days. And for these non-Irish tunes, the sound of the whistle, in our opinion,
just goes great with the accordion. Sometimes a fiddle player joins us too and it sounds real nice. My question: So if I’m looking at a piece of music and I see for example it’s in the key of B-flat does that mean I can just buy a B-flat whistle to be able to jam with her on that tune? I really don’t understand how that works. Any ideas? I’ve tried doing some half hole playing or cross fingering but it’s just not really reliable when I need to just read some music and blast out a tune.Oh , and I bought a regular metal band flute off eBay that is in good shape, but it’s taking me a long time to learn it. Once I learn that I could play in all keys. But the idea of playing whistle on some of these world folk tunes is really exciting.
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Re: Playing with a friend , her music in many keys, buy different keyed whistles?

Post by JackL »

For your example, a B-flat whistle might give you most of the notes you need, but...

- If there are accidentals in the music, you still will need to have a workaround such as half-holing or cross fingering.

- The lowest note will be B-flat, so the music may go too low for the whistle's range, so you will still need a workaround.

- And, in my mind, the biggest issue is that the fingering of a whistle in another key will allow you to play a scale, just as with the D whistle, but for a B-flat whistle the scale will be the B-flat scale (starting from B-flat at the bottom instead of D). If you are used to reading music with a D whistle, you are going to have to relearn the translation between the notes on the page and your finger positions. I know people do it, some fairly easily, but it is not my gift.
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Re: Playing with a friend , her music in many keys, buy different keyed whistles?

Post by Loren »

Probably not the answer you want to hear but….If you’re going to be playing multiple genres of music, in multiple keys, on both diatonic and (eventually) chromatic instruments, you really should start learning music theory and different approaches to backing, otherwise you’re going to struggle and your playing is going to sound very one dimensional as a set goes on and you switch through keys and genres. Just grabbing a different whistle isn’t going to be enough (to sound good) IME.
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Re: Playing with a friend , her music in many keys, buy different keyed whistles?

Post by GreenWood »

OTOH Loren, with a band playing just traditional Irish music, a flautist or whistle player might use a single instrument through a whole set, sometimes just filling in as backing, sometimes solo, sometimes quiet, and that works ? I know OP is speaking different genres, but the accordion player isn't going to be changing instrument either ? It's not to disagree and I understand what you are saying, but a lot of the ability is with technique and the player, not the instrument alone.

My approach would be to get familiar with the various tunes beforehand so to know which instrument is prefered both for setting/style and scale. I think by trial and error you would learn to pick up on the right scale or instrument quite fast for a new tune , by ear. Loren's approach is acceptable also but I don't think you have to learn theory to access different approaches to playing or backing. For example if you listen to Balkan folk music tunes with wind players, learn to play some of what they are playing (i.e. where and how), you will pick up different styles and understandings of the music to work with.

I think for most people their learning is a mixture of different methods though. If annotation and visualising/calculating the composition suits then that is what they will do. If they don't like trying to figure out properly written music, they will go more by tab or by ear. No reason to force one method or another in my opinion, and no reason to say one is better or the other....though personally I much prefer by ear.

Apart from that all I know is that whistle players tend to collect tons of instruments, for reasons I haven't fully understood yet.
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Re: Playing with a friend , her music in many keys, buy different keyed whistles?

Post by glacier »

I play Balkan and Greek music as well (on clarinet, not on whistle). Without seeing the music, it's tough to say anything absolute- but a lot of music from those parts of the world mixes flats and sharps in the scales, and some pieces modulate quite a bit to either new tonal centers or to a different scale on the same tonic. Not saying it can't or shouldn't be done on whistle- but in addition to collecting whistles in different keys, you'd almost need to get comfortable with half holing/cross fingering as well as plotting out arrangements (perhaps letting the accordion/fiddle take some melodies solo, or you playing a drone underneath in those parts). Have fun!
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Re: Playing with a friend , her music in many keys, buy different keyed whistles?

Post by Narzog »

I'm a believer that everyone can benefit from learning a bit of music theory. I don't mean to go to school and take a Jaz course. But having an at least basic understanding of how keys, scales, intervals, chords, etc work, can help people to know what's going on in the music. And in my case at least, understanding what's going on always helps to learn things.

Also there's nothing wrong with playing a song or tune in a different style than its original. You obviously don't go to an irish pub then play a not irish pub version of a song or tune. But if you are just paying with a friend, or at a place that isnt specific to the genre your not playing, then it can be fine. But I would still listen to the original versions to see how it was originally played, and then decide if you want to replicate that or change it.
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Re: Playing with a friend , her music in many keys, buy different keyed whistles?

Post by eedbjp »

Thank you all, this is certainly giving me a lot to think about. I think the first order of business for me is to get comfortable with some alternate fingerings. And also just to keep learning the Boehm flute I bought on eBay for the really tough keys. Short answer for me, just buying a bunch of whistles isn’t going to be a super easy shortcut. Thank you so much.
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Re: Playing with a friend , her music in many keys, buy different keyed whistles?

Post by pancelticpiper »

The main thing is with whistle, keyless wooden 6-hole flute, and uilleann pipes, is the alternate fingerings for C (talking D whistle, flute, and pipes).

For example, and including a lower-hand ring finger "anchor finger"

(mouthpiece to the left, open end of the whistle to the right)

ooo|oox C#
oxx|oox C natural

With the C# fingering a D whistle gives a D Major scale D E F# G A B C# d

With the C natural fingering a D whistle gives a G Major scale G A B Cnat d e f# g

And so it goes with any whistle, for example here's an F whistle

With the "C# fingering" gives an F Major scale F G A B-flat C D E f

With the "C natural fingering" gives a Bb Major scale B-flat C D E-flat f g a b-flat

So each whistle gives two Major scales and of course the associated minor, Dorian, and Mixolydian scales.

Now about Balkan music, I used to play in an International Folk Dance band, I played keyed Irish flute, Kaval, and Gaida.

You really need a keyed wooden flute (or a Boehm flute) due to the presence of scales that can't be played on an ordinary Irish whistle without doing some half-holed notes.

Thing is, in Bulgarian dance music for example a tune might stay in the key of A but alternate between three different A scales:

A Major A B C# D E F# G# A

A minor A B Cnat D E Fnat Gnat A

A "hijaz" A B-flat C# D E Fnat Gnat A

No matter what key of whistle you choose, you'll be doing some half-holing on whistle.

If you're going to be doing a lot of Balkan I highly recommend getting a keyed Irish flute, a Boehm flute, or better yet a Kaval (which plays a chromatic scale with no keywork needed).
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Re: Playing with a friend , her music in many keys, buy different keyed whistles?

Post by busterbill »

While everyone's advice to learn a bit of theory is well enough, I've known a number of whistle players who carry a bag of whistles for the reason you describe or to accompany a singer's vocal range. You could start by choosing the key your friend most favors when adventuring from ITM and pick up a quality whistle in that key. You don't need every key. But you will find your way. While you can get most of the notes on a D whistle with cross fingerings it can be quite a chore. A whistle in the key of Bb, for example, will also add quite a few lower notes. When playing in Bb on a D whistle might technically be possible, it will be pretty darn hard to follow a tune without jumping octaves. This can me interesting or irritating. Though, for your purpose, perhaps just backing with harmony notes will be enough. I am a great fan of Balkan stuff. Depending on the tune you can either play all the notes or serve as a drone or back up harmony. I'd pick up a whistle in a key your friend commonly plays in and experiment. Pick a maker that you enjoy and can afford and buy one. If your budget is low you might want to teach yourself how to tweak Generations. There are lots of posts that address how to tweak a whistle. But if the budget will stretch I'd look for a better maker.
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