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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 3:02 pm 
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Hi ! What would you uwe to remove the oil from the head of a wooden whistle ? Ethyl alcohol ? Aceton ? Thanks for the input !


Last edited by BelgianWaffle on Tue Feb 27, 2018 4:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 3:47 pm 
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If it isn't wood and if no part of it is wood I'd just use dish soap and warm water. If there is any wood anywhere I'd wipe it like crazy and run some pipe cleaners and through it and swab it.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 10:56 pm 
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BelgianWaffle wrote:
Hi ! What would you uwe to remove the oil from the head of a whistle ? Ethyl alcohol ? Aceton ? Thanks for the input !


Do not use Aceton on plastic.

A good dish soap is fine. ''Dawn''

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:22 pm 
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It’s wood.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:59 am 
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It really does matter what type of oil was used and whether or not it was finished/varnished, wood species, et all. Try to contact the maker if possible. It may take time to contact the person, however, it will not cost you anything (time and money) near the amount it will cost if you botch it. Take your time, and do not trust people on the web who claim expertise.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 10:00 am 
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So the entire head of the whistle is wood, like a recorder?

What species of wood are we talking about?

Where is the oil that you want to remove, on the outside of the head? Inside the windway? On the labium (ramp)?

Why do you want to remove this oil?

Are you certain it’s oil?

If you are certain it’s oil, are you certain it isn’t a drying oil that was applied as a finish?

Or......is this a question about removing excessive oil from when you oil the whistle yourself? If so, are we talking immediately after or once it has dried? In which case the type of oil used is pertinent.

Oh, and I’m an actual expert, not an internet expert :wink:


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 11:14 am 
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Quick situation scetch : I bought a blackwood whistle from mr. Le Couant and everytime I played it my lips and mouth burned like I'd rubbed them with chillli-oil. This very unpleasant sensation lasted a couple of days and returned everytime I played the whistle. I thought it was the wood so I traded with a friend for a Goldie.
Now I bought a boxwood whistle by mr Swayne and thought since it was boxwood it would not cause the same reaction. Unfortunately, it does. So I reckon it must be the oil since both of them used almond oil to cure the whistles.
Now to answer your questions :
1) It's an entirely wooden whistle except for a brass plug that keeps the block in its place.
2) boxwood
3) I want to remove it from the parts my lips touch and hopefully that will do the trick...
4) see above
5 & 6) pretty sure but I wrote to mr. Swayne explaining the situation and awaiting his answer
I really love this whistle both in tone and appearance so I would like to continue playing it but not when it causes this reaction...
Thanks for your expert advice ;-)


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 4:07 pm 
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Ah, allergies! Now we are getting somewhere! I have lots of personal experience with this, so I’ll offer what info I can.

1. You may or may not be allergic to almond oil. Have you tried getting some almond oil and testing it on your skin or a very tiny amount on your lip to see if you react? A Blackwood allergy would be more likely than a (pure) almond oil allergy, so ruling this out, or in, would be my first step.

2. Have you wiped down the Boxwood whistle with any thing that touched the Blackwood whistle? Stored it touching anything the Blackwood whistle touched? If so, it is entirely possible you transferred some of the offending Blackwood allergens to the new whistle. I’ve had this happen, it’s not just a theory. Along these lines, it is possible that somewhere in Swayne’s manufacturing process there is cross contamination from his Blackwood instruments to his Boxwood instruments. Having worked in a recorder shop making instruments from a variety of woods, I can think of multiple places where this could happen in production. This is a very real possibility, which could leave one who has been sensitized to Blackwood then reacting to a new Boxwood whistle.

3. As an FYI, oiling a whistle or flute made from an allergenic wood makes reactions more likely and more severe, this is particularly true with newly made instruments. The oil essentially helps move additional offending compounds from deeper in the wood to the surface, and onto your lips and face (for flute players).

4. The reaction may no be from almond oil or the wood. Many makers buff instruments on a buffing wheel using a polishing compound, so you could be reacting to that. The buffing wheel is also one place cross contamination is likely to happen - buff a Blackwood instrument and then a Boxwood instrument on the same machine without changing the buffing wheel and Shazam!

Also, makers sometimes recommend oiling with pure almond oil, but they may use additives to cure the oil since almond oil doesn’t really dry on its own, at least not in a timely fashion. So, you could be reacting to a drying agent.

Alternatively, some makers recommend almond oil but actually use a different oil, like linseed oil, in the actual production of the instrument. And again, this could be with or without drying agents added to the oil.

The oiling process during production is another place where cross contamination is highly likely: Makers often have a container of oil they just drop instrument bodies into to soak, Blackwood, Boxwood, rose woods, cocobolo, all get oiled in the same sauce. You can see the potential problem here.

And what about wiping down those freshly oiled parts, do the different woods all get separate cloths or towels? Not so likely.

5. As for the actual cleaning, I am now hesitant to make specific suggestions. If I am understanding correctly this is a new Swayne whistle, in which case you really shouldn’t take any action until you hear back from the maker - he may be less likely to work with you on a return or replacement if you start stripping the original finish. And I’d really want to be certain it’s the almond oil and not blackwood cross contamination you’re dealing with, because I’d suggest different methods for each of those problems.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 11:01 am 
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Blackwood is in the Rosewood family along with Tulipwood and Cocobolo. The whole family is pretty allergenic in a sensitive person.

You could try coating the plug and thin rim that touches your lip with polyurethane.
I've made one or two Cocobolo whistles for sensitive people.I did all the voicing and shaping of the head but before I epoxied everything together I removed the metal mouthpiece ferrule and fipple plug and sanded the remaining wood part about 1/8" shorter. I then glued the head up, which left a 1/8" gap where the wood had been. I filled this with epoxy then sanded it flush. This way, only epoxy touched the players lips, not Cocobolo.It wasn't quite as pretty but it solved the problem .

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 7:16 am 
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Re: Using "Dawn:"

As an FYI, we pilots NEVER use Dawn to wash our planes, because the formula for it will corrode aluminum. :shock:

Ivory dish soap and warm water is probably the best solution.

(See what I did ther?)

..Joe

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 10:19 am 
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Thank you all for your advice ! I've written to mr. Swayne explaining the problem but have not yet heard back from

@Loren : a specific thank you for the extensive reply !

@mr. Busman : thanks ! What poly urethane coating would you use to do this ? I'm in Belgium, Europe... The windway would have to stay clear, right ?

Regards,
Jos


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 10:30 am 
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You could use a water based polyurethane product designed for finishing wood. Apply it with a small brush. You might want to use several coats,letting them dry in between.
After I made my last post I thought of another solution. Put some clear packing tape over the area that touches your lips, then trim away the excess with a very sharp knife.
Could you post a picture of the whistle head? It might suggest other options.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 10:44 am 
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Paul, he’s got a Swayne whistle so the head, I believe, is essentially all wood like a recorder, with the the possible exception of a pin holding the block in place. If so, he’d have to seal much of the head...


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 10:58 am 
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There are some photos of the head of a Swayne whistle at viewtopic.php?f=1&t=36872&start=0

Best wishes.

Steve

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 11:02 am 
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Sorry mr. Busman, can't seem to figure out how to post a picture. However, what Loren said : it's a Swayne so it's a tulip shape like the one on this page : https://www.jonswayne.com/whistles.

When I look up waterbased polyurethane products, what I find most is sorts of lacquer for wooden parquet floors. Is it something like that you mean ? Again, most grateful for your input.


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