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DrPhill wrote:but know the 'names' of the finger positions as if they were on a D whistle.

That's what I've given you, Phill.

The c natural feels more right to me, but I can easily believe myself wrong.

The C natural is right. Look at the fingered scales I gave you. I didn't them write them ABC-style with upper and lower case because they're just scales, but they're adjusted as if played on D whistle.

Peter Duggan wrote:

DrPhill wrote:but know the 'names' of the finger positions as if they were on a D whistle.

That's what I've given you, Phill.

The c natural feels more right to me, but I can easily believe myself wrong.

The C natural is right. Look at the fingered scales I gave you. I didn't them write them ABC-style with upper and lower case because they're just scales, but they're adjusted as if played on D whistle.

Ok, thanks Peter. Sorry if I seem dense but I lack the required familiarity with the terminology to ask the right question and understand the answer unless it is defined in terms I understand unambiguously. It must be tedious for folk like you who do have that familiarity, and I am grateful to you for taking the time to explain.

It is irritating to know that if we were sat together I could have played it and not needed the words. The question would have been answered in seconds.

Many thanks.

It's not tedious at all, Phill!

I did scales because I wasn't sure what you meant by the seventh... as in the seventh from the bell note, which you were talking about, or the seventh of the scale/key of the song, which you weren't. I only mentioned the sounding pitch (a G key note) as a safeguard against someone saying 'but it's not in A anything', so sorry if that threw you!

PS Editing to add (hopefully without throwing you again!) that the C naturals are the minor third of the mode(s) in use, so what gives the song its basically minor sound.

You can even identify and name the source of my confusion 'the seventh from what?'. I never thought of that. I always think of 'all fingers off' as 'the seventh' and the semi-tone lower as the 'flattened seventh'. Should have stuck to pretending it was a D whistle. Lesson learned.

Anyway, all is well. My ear picked the correct one. I am making an effort to learn new tunes by ear only - so I am picking easier ones.

Thanks

DrPhill wrote:You can even identify and name the source of my confusion 'the seventh from what?'. I never thought of that. I always think of 'all fingers off' as 'the seventh' and the semi-tone lower as the 'flattened seventh'. Should have stuck to pretending it was a D whistle. Lesson learned.

Anyway, all is well. My ear picked the correct one. I am making an effort to learn new tunes by ear only - so I am picking easier ones.

Thanks

I have to say, in case it's in question, when you were stationed hereabouts, I never detected any issue with your musical ear.

DrPhill wrote:You can even identify and name the source of my confusion 'the seventh from what?'.

It's bread and butter to me. Literally, but usually face-to-face rather than via typed text.

I never thought of that. I always think of 'all fingers off' as 'the seventh' and the semi-tone lower as the 'flattened seventh'.

That's only really true if you're playing a scale or chord based on the bell note. If you're playing in G major with three-finger key note on that same whistle, your 'flattened seventh' becomes the fourth because you've got a scale that goes G A B C. If you're playing in A minor (or Aeolian or Dorian), it becomes the third because you've got A B C, as does your (unflattened) 'seventh' in A major because you've got A B C#. So that's why the C natural you were asking about is actually the (minor) third. Though, as you've since realised...

Should have stuck to pretending it was a D whistle. Lesson learned.

A simple question 'is it C or C#' would have worked!

Anyway, all is well. My ear picked the correct one. I am making an effort to learn new tunes by ear only - so I am picking easier ones.

While Ben appears to know you in person (?), I've heard the occasional tune you've recorded here and don't doubt your ear any more than he does!

benhall.1 wrote:.....I have to say, in case it's in question, when you were stationed hereabouts, I never detected any issue with your musical ear.

Kind of you to say.... maybe it is confidence in my ear that is lacking. When I have the right whistle I can generally get (slow) tunes even if I have to make audacity play them over and over. I think that the ready availability of ABCs has made me lazy. If I can get a hint from ABCs I can often pick up the rest, but that has made me dependent on the initial hint.

Now I would like to learn to pick up a new tunes without ABC hints, so I can more easily play along with others. Part of that is learning to pick the right whistle. I now have soprano Eb,D,C,Bb so maybe I have most common keys covered (I hope I now have enough whistles, I don't want any more).

Peter Duggan wrote: While Ben appears to know you in person (?), I've heard the occasional tune you're recorded here and don't doubt your ear any more than he does!

Thank you, but there is a difference (to me) between playing a tune that I have learned and learning it in the first place. Once I know (or my fingers know) the tune I am reasonably confident. I am far less confident learning a new tune - especially in a social situation.

DrPhill wrote:

Peter Duggan wrote: While Ben appears to know you in person (?), I've heard the occasional tune you're recorded here and don't doubt your ear any more than he does!

Thank you, but there is a difference (to me) between playing a tune that I have learned and learning it in the first place. Once I know (or my fingers know) the tune I am reasonably confident. I am far less confident learning a new tune - especially in a social situation.

It is a confidence issue. You're better, potentially, than you think you are.