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Whistles with recorder holes?
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Author:  Eeks-Caziques [ Fri Jan 05, 2018 8:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Whistles with recorder holes?

At the outset, I want to thank every one here who has contributed and responded. There have been very many helpful answers, often thought provoking.

I think it might help if I said more about my intentions and moderate perceptions of what I hope to achieve with a metal recorder? First, let me say that I do not play "period" music on my recorders. No Handel. Maybe some Bach as a warm up. But by and large it's Tell Me Ma, theme from Local Hero, Battle Cry of Freedom, One Less Bell to Answer. SOME pieces I play I am sure would sound better on metal than wood: Flowers of Edinburgh, for instance, although it can be tricky with the forked fingering. I have NO DOUBT that Hard Times or Gile Mear will sound better on metal than on wood. But I've learned all my ornamentations on recorder fingering, and that's why I'm pursuing this question.

The two voices thing: standard recorders come in C's and F's. And yes, you can play in all keys on either a C or an F, but because of where a song is written to begin, if I want to play it in its written key, I am best off choosing one or the other and transposing in my head. The last movement of Beethoven's 5th is an easy example: it's in C major, and opens up with a C triad (C, E, G) but has some notes significantly below the starting C, and for that you'd want an F recorder, and start with the C note where the first three holes on the left hand are covered. It's for this reason that I said two voices: to play a song/melody in its actual key, a different voice may be more appropriate.

I know that even if I settle on a metal recorder, that's not going to be the answer to everything. Some music is practically impossible on these instruments, and you can lose decades and alienate neighbors trying to play Bach's harpsichord melodies on these things. There are limits to their versatility.

But I am really sure that the Local Hero theme will sound better on a metal recorder than it will on a rosewood one.

Author:  Peter Duggan [ Sat Jan 06, 2018 3:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Whistles with recorder holes?

Eeks-Caziques wrote:
SOME pieces I play I am sure would sound better on metal than wood: Flowers of Edinburgh, for instance, although it can be tricky with the forked fingering. I have NO DOUBT that Hard Times or Gile Mear will sound better on metal than on wood.

You know people also play whistle music on wooden whistles? I think you're making assumptions here about material vs. voicing and other physical characteristics.

Quote:
But I've learned all my ornamentations on recorder fingering, and that's why I'm pursuing this question.

Which is fair enough so long as you understand they won't sound like whistle ornamentation on a recorder that's made like a whistle. Though you might sometimes get close if you're talking cuts, strikes, rolls etc. rather than trills, and it's probably not crucial for the repertoire you've outlined.

Quote:
I know that even if I settle on a metal recorder, that's not going to be the answer to everything. Some music is practically impossible on these instruments, and you can lose decades and alienate neighbors trying to play Bach's harpsichord melodies on these things. There are limits to their versatility.

But I am really sure that the Local Hero theme will sound better on a metal recorder than it will on a rosewood one.

I have a Hopf Silberton treble (alto) recorder with metal head and wood body, and have long regretted selling the matching all-metal descant (soprano) because they're almost impossible to find now. But I'd not describe the sound of either as 'metal' and still think you're making assumptions about 'metal' and 'wood' sounds. If I wanted fun recorders for diverse (not typical recorder) repertoire now, I'd probably be looking at something like the Mollenhauer 'Dream' series, but it wouldn't be for 'whistle' sound.

Author:  whistlecollector [ Sat Jan 06, 2018 6:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Whistles with recorder holes?

Eeks-Caziques wrote:
SOME pieces I play I am sure would sound better on metal than wood: Flowers of Edinburgh, for instance, although it can be tricky with the forked fingering. I have NO DOUBT that Hard Times or Gile Mear will sound better on metal than on wood. But I am really sure that the Local Hero theme will sound better on a metal recorder than it will on a rosewood one.


I don't know --- you might be disappointed with a recorder-whistle. Maybe also surprised that wood and metal don't make a whole lot of difference in sound.

Sounds like you really just want an actual metal recorder! Apart from the Hopf whistle-shaped recorder, John Orth is the only maker I know of that's ever made an actual metal recorder, and I doubt he has plans to make any more...

Image

Author:  Eeks-Caziques [ Sun Jan 07, 2018 11:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Whistles with recorder holes?

whistlecollector wrote:
You might be looking for one of Hans Bracker's recorder whistles: https://music.bracker.co//Whistles/Special-Whistles.html


I was very intrigued by these... The nine hole ones as well. I've bookmarked the page. Thank you again.

Author:  Eeks-Caziques [ Sun Jan 07, 2018 11:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Whistles with recorder holes?

whistlecollector wrote:
Sounds like you really just want an actual metal recorder! Apart from the Hopf whistle-shaped recorder, John Orth is the only maker I know of that's ever made an actual metal recorder, and I doubt he has plans to make any more...


I was speaking in shorthand, sorry. I really meant a whistle with recorder-spaced holes.

Author:  Peter Duggan [ Sun Jan 07, 2018 12:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Whistles with recorder holes?

Eeks-Caziques wrote:
I was speaking in shorthand, sorry. I really meant a whistle with recorder-spaced holes.

But you said 'SOME pieces I play I am sure would sound better on metal than wood', 'I have NO DOUBT that Hard Times or Gile Mear will sound better on metal than on wood', and 'I am really sure that the Local Hero theme will sound better on a metal recorder than it will on a rosewood one.'

Strange shorthand when the material's largely irrelevant and metal's not synonymous with whistle! So you want a recorder that sounds like a whistle, but it won't (apart from maybe timbre) because the fingering won't let you do the same things and the simpler bore profile of the hybrids (compared to true recorders) may also result in other compromises. So my advice remains the same; by all means get a hybrid for fun, but don't expect it to magically transform your recorder playing into folky whistling.

Author:  Eeks-Caziques [ Mon Jan 08, 2018 8:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Whistles with recorder holes?

Peter Duggan wrote:
Eeks-Caziques wrote:
I was speaking in shorthand, sorry. I really meant a whistle with recorder-spaced holes.

But you said 'SOME pieces I play I am sure would sound better on metal than wood', 'I have NO DOUBT that Hard Times or Gile Mear will sound better on metal than on wood', and 'I am really sure that the Local Hero theme will sound better on a metal recorder than it will on a rosewood one.'

Strange shorthand when the material's largely irrelevant and metal's not synonymous with whistle! So you want a recorder that sounds like a whistle, but it won't (apart from maybe timbre) because the fingering won't let you do the same things and the simpler bore profile of the hybrids (compared to true recorders) may also result in other compromises. So my advice remains the same; by all means get a hybrid for fun, but don't expect it to magically transform your recorder playing into folky whistling.


It sounds like I was frustrating to deal with. I apologize and am sorry.

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