On Learning: Part One

[Polara Pat]

I think we have different understandings of the nature of 'mastery'.

Yes it is puzzling when somebody talks about "mastering" a tune. Whatever does that mean?

We just need to find the "tune master" and ask them. Simple

sorry Great Highland Bagpipe, so called because there are other sizes of Highland bagpipe, and Lowland bagpipes too.

GBH... Great Big Horn? German Bock Hummelchen?

Grievous bodily harm.

[Tyler DelGregg]

I came home from a 6th grade field trip in 1968 with a cheap recorder that drove my family nuts. I played the Great Highland Bagpipe in the 1970s until an injury led me back to the recorder. Years later, I evolved into the whistle. Now, I play the whistle, not too well, but I think I can continue to improve. I never learned how to read music, and I still retain some playing habits from the recorder years. I play in folk groups at times for fun, but realistically, although I would like to, I don't know whether I will ever be able to play in a good session. I play almost every night in a concentrated fashion. But sometimes, I fool about with no real intention. The whistle is constructed so simply compared to most other woodwinds, and yet, it produces such complex sounds.

[s1m0n]

I think we have different understandings of the nature of 'mastery'.

Once again, "a long way towards X" does not equal "X". The former is a vector, the latter a destination.

And what's with that, anyway? Is your musical ability so precious to you that you need to take every opportunity to gloat about it?

[Polara Pat]

I think we have different understandings of the nature of 'mastery'.

Once again, "a long way towards X" does not equal "X". The former is a vector, the latter a destination.

And what's with that, anyway? Is your musical ability so precious to you that you need to take every opportunity to gloat about it?

I'm a bit reluctant to get between you two on this debate but do you think there ever is a final destination? (death aside) I build old cars as a hobby and speak in terms of tiny victories but even when they get really close to being finished, they are never done.

[Tyler DelGregg]

I think we have different understandings of the nature of 'mastery'. But nver mind that, no need to flesh that out here (I know, I started it).

In my opinion, any improvement is a movement towards mastery, if mastery is one's intention. However, hardly anyone masters an instrument except for a very few because of many reasons. I don't think there is an established standard for measuring mastery, other than the one we sense in the presence of a real master, or the imprimatur stamped upon the player by other masters. Whenever I am in the company of self proclaimed master of anything, am skeptical until proven wrong. Then, I am pleasantly humbled.

[Mr.Gumby]

However, hardly anyone masters an instrument except for a very few because of many reasons.

Exactly, and that why I think that statements like :

You can get a long way towards mastery in a month or so

are silly. You can acquire a degree of competence on the whistle in a few months. Mastery, it doesn't even come into view in that time span.

Different instruments have different learning curves, there's a quick progress on some, others are steep and require a lot of work and perseverance at the start. Over time though, I believe, things will even out and a reasonable, and comparable, level of basic competence will be reached on all. I don't like to think in terms of 'mastery' but once that term starts being thrown about I think of level of intimate familiarity and highly detailed competence, something only attained after spending a lot of time with an instrument (I won't go near the 10.000 hours so [popular in this sort of discussions on internet forums but you get my drift).

[s1m0n]

You'll note that I'm talking about the mechanics of playing a whistle, and that I make a point of saying that this is wholly different from mastering the music, which is, I specify, a much more difficult task. Playing a whistle is not physically demanding. Learning to associate which fingering and how much breath with which note is not hard. Learning strikes, cuts, slides and finger vibrato is likewise. Learning how and where to breathe is a little harder, but hardly insurmountable. None of that will qualify you to make beautiful music, but it does mean that from an early stage, you're confronting the music rather than the instrument. It takes years to get to this stage with a fiddle. It takes months with a whistle.

~~

What is it with you and sh!tting on beginners?

[s1m0n]

I'm a bit reluctant to get between you two on this debate but do you think there ever is a final destination?

No, of course not. However, when you're starting out, that's a target. The more you learn and the more you know, the more you realize that you'll never know. That is the nature of knowledge, in any field.

[s1m0n]

Peter, can you identify a whistle technique breakthrough that you came up with some time after your first year playing? I don't think there are many. I'm certain that your playing improved, but I'm also sure that this was because of your increasing command of the music, not of the instrument.

[Dan A.]

I'm a bit reluctant to get between you two on this debate but do you think there ever is a final destination? (death aside) I build old cars as a hobby and speak in terms of tiny victories but even when they get really close to being finished, they are never done.

Whether there is a final destination with anything is arbitrary and, quite possibly, an abstraction. In the case of whistling, as relates to me, I have no set destination...but, as if often the case, the journey is just as enjoyable as the destination.

In the case of an old car...sure, you can buy a derelict, take years to restore it, and finally see it restored. But the journey still continues, even if it is only driven on and off a trailer. In my case, there would be additional maintenance and upkeep, as I believe that a car is meant to be driven.

As an aside, Pat, is the Dodge Polara a particular favorite of yours?

[Nanohedron]

I think we have different understandings of the nature of 'mastery'.

Once again, "a long way towards X" does not equal "X". The former is a vector, the latter a destination.

But there is only the vector. The destination doesn't exist. "Mastery" is just a term that, IMO, properly should be conferred by others, not oneself (which would be hubris). Beyond that, it's just a hypothetical concept for the purposes of this discussion.

And what's with that, anyway? Is your musical ability so precious to you that you need to take every opportunity to gloat about it?

What is it with you and sh!tting on beginners?

Not sure how you're arriving at any of this, here. None of Mr.Gumby's posts in this thread lead me to such a conclusion, and I dare say I'm not the dullest knife in the drawer. Now pardon me while I seek shelter from that thunderbolt.

[Polara Pat]

In the case of an old car...sure, you can buy a derelict, take years to restore it, and finally see it restored. But the journey still continues, even if it is only driven on and off a trailer. In my case, there would be additional maintenance and upkeep, as I believe that a car is meant to be driven.

As an aside, Pat, is the Dodge Polara a particular favorite of yours?

I can't remember when I got the handle of Polara Pat but I have had a few. Maybe not my all time favorite but I do like them. Our current one is a '64 altered wheelbase wagon that is race only. I'd post a pic but that seems beyond my skill set. Plus it has nothing to do with learning the tin whistle and folks are already getting agro on this thread. No need to fuel the flames with off topic chatter.

[Nanohedron]

...folks are already getting agro on this thread. No need to fuel the flames with off topic chatter.

Meh. Embrace the surliness.

[Polara Pat]

...folks are already getting agro on this thread. No need to fuel the flames with off topic chatter.

Meh. Embrace the surliness.

You asked for it.

[Tunborough]

Our current one is a '64 altered wheelbase wagon that is race only.

I learned to drive on a silver Polara wagon, circa '68, somewhat late in its life. Somehow, both of us survived the experience more or less unscathed.