On Learning: Part One

[Polara Pat]

I think that the improvements are very rapid, initially, as you learn how to cover holes and move your fingers, but the curve definitely begins to level off once you get beyond the basics. I'd say I'm hundred times better than I was on day one, four times as good as I was at a month, and two to three times as good as I was at a year. I'm better than I was in 2014, but not miles better. The farther you advance, the harder you have to work for far less noticeable gains.

If you're doing it right, you rough out your skill set in the first year or so, and then it comes down to details and speed and execution. Getting your rhythm a bit better. Getting your ornamentation a little more precise. Gaining speed without sacrificing accuracy. Learning how to be intentional about your breathing and using it skillfully. Figuring out how to go beyond simple regurgitation and recitation of tunes but imbuing them with new life in your own interpretation. It's what separates the pros from the enthusiasts.

You sprint to maybe 50% of your potential, then stroll to 65%, then shuffle to 75%, then crawl to 80%, then drag yourself to 85%, then spend the rest of your life inching toward 90%.

If you are interested in pestering a real whistle player, there are several excellent teachers who offer Skype lessons. A friend of mine in San Antonio is learning flute from Kevin Crawford of Lunasa fame via Skype, so geography needn't be a hard barrier (although money might be).

P.S. - As an amateur whistle player myself, I reserve the right to be completely wrong about all of the above. These are just my personal feelings and observations on the topic. There are others on this forum with far more experience and skill than I have accumulated over the last few years.

I'm liking everything that you have to say here. Well, maybe not liking it so much since it means that I need to keep pushing the boulder uphill for a long time but I get it. I'm pretty self motivated and I do plan on taking a few classes from OAIM in the NY. I think it also comes down to your playing goals. Right now I am shooting for tolerable; in a year that might be upped to acceptable but until a month ago I didn't even know what a session was, so it's not even on my radar. Keeping my learning goals realistic and only focusing on the tunes that I know and like for now suits me fine. Hey, if I sing the song in my head while I play is it still a tune and not a song. That's my dumb question of the day.

[Dan A.]

Hey, if I sing the song in my head while I play is it still a tune and not a song. That's my dumb question of the day.

I do that on occasion, and it has no discernible impact on my whistling. As one would not be able to hear the singing, I would say it remains a tune.

As this thread is titled, in part, "On Learning," there is one thing I've learned. My whistle plays much, much better when it's warm. Even just pulling it back and forth between my elbow and side for 15 to 30 seconds makes a world of difference when playing high D and high E.

[Polara Pat]

Hey, if I sing the song in my head while I play is it still a tune and not a song. That's my dumb question of the day.

I do that on occasion, and it has no discernible impact on my whistling. As one would not be able to hear the singing, I would say it remains a tune.

As this thread is titled, in part, "On Learning," there is one thing I've learned. My whistle plays much, much better when it's warm. Even just pulling it back and forth between my elbow and side for 15 to 30 seconds makes a world of difference when playing high D and high E.

I kind of had you in mind when I started this thread Dan, since it seems like we may be at a similar level of playing. Maybe even similar age too but that's just a guess. As far as the song vs. tune question...it was meant to be a bit tongue in cheek. Just a bit.

[Dan A.]

I kind of had you in mind when I started this thread Dan, since it seems like we may be at a similar level of playing. Maybe even similar age too but that's just a guess.

I suspect that your playing might be a bit more advanced than mine. If you can convincingly play more than two tunes (though I've almost added a third tune to my repertoire), suspicion confirmed. As for age? I'm 39.

[westonm]

I talked to a guy online last week who tried to argue that the tin whistle wasn't even a real instrument at all, but merely a toy

I suspect he was trolling me, for he had several other choice words to say about Irish culture in general

From my perspective if it produces a pleasing sound it is music. And with my limited understanding, it seems to me that there are plenty of other instruments with similar range and utility that no one would argue are "not instruments" or, as Dave mentioned "are easy to learn" in absolute terms. Though I suspect it may be easier to learn compared to say, a guitar or piano

At least I'm hoping so.

[Nanohedron]

I talked to a guy online last week who tried to argue that the tin whistle wasn't even a real instrument at all, but merely a toy

Let him witness the likes of Mary Bergin and say that. I think he was trolling you. If he really believes what he says, no doubt it has to do with the whistle's simplicity, but that's no legitimate argument.

[Mr.Gumby]

Though I suspect it may be easier to learn compared to say, a guitar or piano

It probably is, but when learning a simple instrument or a relatively simple music like Irish music (or any other folk/traditional idiom) the devil is really in the detail, the small things count for a lot. Anyone suggesting a month goes a long way to mastery of the instrument in my opinion doesn't understand the nature of mastery: having full control of the fine detail and nuances. Simple tunes played adequately, they're in easy-ish reach though. And from there you keep on developing, or at last you would hope so.

[s1m0n]

Anyone suggesting a month goes a long way to mastery of the instrument in my opinion doesn't understand the nature of mastery

Note that I didn't say you could attain mastery in two months, merely that you could go a long way towards it. Which is true, in comparison to nearly every other instrument in the world.

You must know at least one accomplished musician who has decided to take up the whistle. They'll make remarkable progress. The nuances might take years, but the basics are easy.

[Mr.Gumby]

I think we have different understandings of the nature of 'mastery'. But nver mind that, no need to flesh that out here (I know, I started it).

[Peter Duggan]

Though I suspect it may be easier to learn compared to say, a guitar or piano

Speaking as someone who plays about a dozen instruments to a reasonable standard and none really well any more (the nearest would have been the recorder, which I studied abroad thirty years ago but no longer play anything like that seriously), I'd say there are ultimately no 'easy' instruments if you want to get good. While some are initially more approachable and let you get going quicker, you're quite simply going to need both top-class talent and top-class dedication to be top-class at anything. And, for those that don't appear to make quite the same eye- and ear-popping demands as others, there's still plenty going on to distinguish the good from the great and the great from the best. From working year after year to get my school music pupils through their SQA (Scottish Qualifications Authority) performing exams, I'm aware that the notionally equivalent minimum standards for instruments across the board aren't necessarily so at all. But that doesn't make anyone having a harder time on instrument X or Y at that level any more likely to make world-class on instrument Z even if Z may temporarily be* the 'softer' option.

*In which context 'be' could mean 'appear to be' or even genuinely 'be' for a while, at that level, for that purpose.

[pancelticpiper]

If I hear one more person tell me that playing the whistle is the easiest instrument to learn I may just have to turn my whistle into a lethal weapon.

Or as we used to say back home "stick it where the sun don't shine"!

[pancelticpiper]

Learning technique and learning the music are two different skills.

My first instrument was the GHB and I started out (like so many others) with scales and simple exercises first, then simple slow tunes, then gradually on to faster tunes. Things like reels and jigs were held back for quite a while.

So when I got my first ITM instrument- a wood flute- it surprised me to find that the few ITM players around advocated jumping in with reels and jigs from the get-go.

Then later when I studied Baroque flute at University it was the diametric opposite, practising excercises only, hundreds of them, book after book full the them, for what seemed like forever, until my teacher dropped a Bach piece on the stand. And you know what? I could play it, because there wasn't anything in there that I hadn't already done many times.

So there are many approaches but they all produce good players.

I will say that when I practice jigs or reels slowed down a bit with a metronome I find that my fingering gets more precise and that I memorise the tunes more quickly. It also ingrains, with me anyhow, keeping the rhythm going forward no matter what.

[Polara Pat]

Learning technique and learning the music are two different skills.

My first instrument was the GHB and I started out (like so many others) with scales and simple exercises first, then simple slow tunes, then gradually on to faster tunes. Things like reels and jigs were held back for quite a while.

So when I got my first ITM instrument- a wood flute- it surprised me to find that the few ITM players around advocated jumping in with reels and jigs from the get-go.

Then later when I studied Baroque flute at University it was the diametric opposite, practising excercises only, hundreds of them, book after book full the them, for what seemed like forever, until my teacher dropped a Bach piece on the stand. And you know what? I could play it, because there wasn't anything in there that I hadn't already done many times.

So there are many approaches but they all produce good players.

I will say that when I practice jigs or reels slowed down a bit with a metronome I find that my fingering gets more precise and that I memorise the tunes more quickly. It also ingrains, with me anyhow, keeping the rhythm going forward no matter what.

Maybe it's just dyslexia but I thought for sure that you said that your first instrument was GBH!! yikes. Anyways, it's always good to get input from the longtime professionals and although a lot of the info might fly over my head, I like to think that I absorb at least a little. There was a point, not too long ago that I wasn't sure if I would be capable of memorizing songs. Thankfully I overcame that that fear and now have a few favorites in the bag. I still have a long way to go but look forward to the journey.

[pancelticpiper]

sorry Great Highland Bagpipe, so called because there are other sizes of Highland bagpipe, and Lowland bagpipes too.

GBH... Great Big Horn? German Bock Hummelchen?

[pancelticpiper]

I think we have different understandings of the nature of 'mastery'.

Yes it is puzzling when somebody talks about "mastering" a tune. Whatever does that mean?

I know I've never mastered one, and never will.

On the contrary the tunes always have a way of demonstrating their mastery over me.