Och's "Constant Billy" - 2nd octave C-nat
Och's "Constant Billy" - 2nd octave C-nat
In the Ochs tutorial, at the tune Constant Billy, Ochs recommends half-holing 2nd octave C-natural but also suggests looking at the fingering chart in the back of the book for an alternate fingering.
This is oxo xxx.
Has anyone else tried this? The difficulty (challenge!) I'm running into is that I'm keyed up to use lots of air for the 3rd-octave notes in the tune but this one seems to demand less air or it won't work ("won't work" as in "just air with no note coming out").
This is oxo xxx.
Has anyone else tried this? The difficulty (challenge!) I'm running into is that I'm keyed up to use lots of air for the 3rd-octave notes in the tune but this one seems to demand less air or it won't work ("won't work" as in "just air with no note coming out").
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur. (Anything is more impressive if you say it in Latin)
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Re: Och's "Constant Billy" - 2nd octave C-nat
Every note needs a unique amount of air. It's useless to try and think your way to success, so you need to get this info into muscle memory, and only way to do that is practice.
So play the note, alone and in the context of the melody. Listen to how it sounds. Play it a lot more times. Eventually, your brain will associate that sound with those finger positions and the right amount of breath. Then, you've mastered it.
~~
I don't know the tune, but unless it's a prominent note, you can likely get away with playing 0X0 000. For a passing note, that'll more than suffice. If the tune calls you to really get a clean C nat, slow way down and practice until it's instinctive. No amount of insight can substitute for practice.
So play the note, alone and in the context of the melody. Listen to how it sounds. Play it a lot more times. Eventually, your brain will associate that sound with those finger positions and the right amount of breath. Then, you've mastered it.
~~
I don't know the tune, but unless it's a prominent note, you can likely get away with playing 0X0 000. For a passing note, that'll more than suffice. If the tune calls you to really get a clean C nat, slow way down and practice until it's instinctive. No amount of insight can substitute for practice.
And now there was no doubt that the trees were really moving - moving in and out through one another as if in a complicated country dance. ('And I suppose,' thought Lucy, 'when trees dance, it must be a very, very country dance indeed.')
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Re: Och's "Constant Billy" - 2nd octave C-nat
This tune? The highest note is a G
https://thesession.org/tunes/14338
Perhaps Ochs' version is put up into a higher key.
If it's the same tune, note that the highest note is approached from its lower neighbor-tone.
High C in Irish dance tunes is fairly rare, but when it does occur it's usually approached by its lower neighbor-tone, B.
In these cases I usually half-hole it; I'm already at B, all I need to do is crack open the C# hole a tiny bit.
BTW it's one of those cross-instrument things you run into with ITM sometimes: many trad Irish fiddlers don't shift, in other words they stay in First Position. High B up on the E string is played with the little finger, and you ain't got any more! So I've seen them sort of bend from High B up to High C. The finger-motion may be different than on whistle, but the sound and effect is similar.
In tunes where High C is approached from a note other than High B I usually use the crossfingering oxo xxx that you mention.
https://thesession.org/tunes/14338
Perhaps Ochs' version is put up into a higher key.
If it's the same tune, note that the highest note is approached from its lower neighbor-tone.
High C in Irish dance tunes is fairly rare, but when it does occur it's usually approached by its lower neighbor-tone, B.
In these cases I usually half-hole it; I'm already at B, all I need to do is crack open the C# hole a tiny bit.
BTW it's one of those cross-instrument things you run into with ITM sometimes: many trad Irish fiddlers don't shift, in other words they stay in First Position. High B up on the E string is played with the little finger, and you ain't got any more! So I've seen them sort of bend from High B up to High C. The finger-motion may be different than on whistle, but the sound and effect is similar.
In tunes where High C is approached from a note other than High B I usually use the crossfingering oxo xxx that you mention.
Richard Cook
c1980 Quinn uilleann pipes
1945 Starck Highland pipes
Goldie Low D whistle
c1980 Quinn uilleann pipes
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Goldie Low D whistle
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Re: Och's "Constant Billy" - 2nd octave C-nat
I don't have the tunebook handy, but he plays it way up there on the whistle. Someone has a recording herepancelticpiper wrote:This tune? The highest note is a G
https://thesession.org/tunes/14338
Perhaps Ochs' version is put up into a higher key.
If it's the same tune, note that the highest note is approached from its lower neighbor-tone.
High C in Irish dance tunes is fairly rare, but when it does occur it's usually approached by its lower neighbor-tone, B.
In these cases I usually half-hole it; I'm already at B, all I need to do is crack open the C# hole a tiny bit.
BTW it's one of those cross-instrument things you run into with ITM sometimes: many trad Irish fiddlers don't shift, in other words they stay in First Position. High B up on the E string is played with the little finger, and you ain't got any more! So I've seen them sort of bend from High B up to High C. The finger-motion may be different than on whistle, but the sound and effect is similar.
In tunes where High C is approached from a note other than High B I usually use the crossfingering oxo xxx that you mention.
http://tinwhistle.breqwas.net/files/Bil ... 0Billy.mp3
In my experience, fingering notes above high B on the whistle tend to vary from whistle to whistle. You'll probably need to experiment to find what works best for yours.
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Re: Och's "Constant Billy" - 2nd octave C-nat
Yes, it's in a section of the tutorial expressly on third-octave notes, and goes to third-octave G.pancelticpiper wrote: Perhaps Ochs' version is put up into a higher key.
Ochs actually says that's the best way, but points to this fingering as a alternate.In these cases I usually half-hole it; I'm already at B, all I need to do is crack open the C# hole a tiny bit.
I can see how it would be useful to have, especially getting from c-nat to d quickly (and/or vice versa) - much easier than with the half-holed note.In tunes where High C is approached from a note other than High B I usually use the crossfingering oxo xxx that you mention.
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur. (Anything is more impressive if you say it in Latin)
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Re: Och's "Constant Billy" - 2nd octave C-nat
[quote="Brus"]
a section of the tutorial expressly on third-octave notes, and goes to third-octave G.
[quote]
I wonder why on earth.
a section of the tutorial expressly on third-octave notes, and goes to third-octave G.
[quote]
I wonder why on earth.
Richard Cook
c1980 Quinn uilleann pipes
1945 Starck Highland pipes
Goldie Low D whistle
c1980 Quinn uilleann pipes
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Goldie Low D whistle
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Re: Och's "Constant Billy" - 2nd octave C-nat
Have you tried a slight alteration, like OXOXXO? I know some whistles are very touchy about OXOOOO (which tends to be sharp of C-nat anyway). Others won't play a reliable second-octave C# unless you finger it OOOOOX.Brus wrote:This one [OXOXXX fingering] seems to demand less air or it won't work ("won't work" as in "just air with no note coming out").
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Re: Och's "Constant Billy" - 2nd octave C-nat
He has some marches to be played a la fife-in the 2nd and 3rd octaves.pancelticpiper wrote:I wonder why on earth.Brus wrote:a section of the tutorial expressly on third-octave notes, and goes to third-octave G.
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Re: Och's "Constant Billy" - 2nd octave C-nat
Because it works, it's effective and there's no law restricting the whistle to sub-two-octave conceptions of Irishness.pancelticpiper wrote:I wonder why on earth.
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Re: Och's "Constant Billy" - 2nd octave C-nat
The OXO XXX is a common C-nat variant, and it works very well on my Killarney for both first and second octave (and gives me C-nat rolls). OXX XXX give me a clean high D. It takes some practice to play the cross-fingered C-nat smoothly, as has already been said.
I have a few tunes where I need these higher notes. Eileen Curran is wonderful in A-dor on D-whistle, which needs the high C-nat, and Tommy's Tarbulkas uses the high D. As noted many fiddle players are not comfortable using second position, so Eileen Curran is usually dropped to G-dor (C-whistle), and Tommy's Tarbulkas is usually played on a B-flat whistle.
I have a few tunes where I need these higher notes. Eileen Curran is wonderful in A-dor on D-whistle, which needs the high C-nat, and Tommy's Tarbulkas uses the high D. As noted many fiddle players are not comfortable using second position, so Eileen Curran is usually dropped to G-dor (C-whistle), and Tommy's Tarbulkas is usually played on a B-flat whistle.
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Re: Och's "Constant Billy" - 2nd octave C-nat
OXO OOO seems to work on some of mine for second octave C nat. But I'd still rather half-hole it. I don't venture into the third octave on whistle. Too shrieky. Whoever's playing it.
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Re: Och's "Constant Billy" - 2nd octave C-nat
On many whistles, OXXOOO gives an in-tune high D without having to push as hard as OXXXXX.tstermitz wrote:The OXO XXX is a common C-nat variant, and it works very well on my Killarney for both first and second octave (and gives me C-nat rolls). OXX XXX give me a clean high D.
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Re: Och's "Constant Billy" - 2nd octave C-nat
Just learn to half hole. In addition to giving you a good Cnat, you can also play other useful notes like Fnat,Bb,G#. It just takes a bit of practice, and there are no weird fingerings to learn, which may or may not transfer to different whistles.
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Re: Och's "Constant Billy" - 2nd octave C-nat
Some of these tunes in the Ochs book sound just great up there... sonically fife-style, as The Lurking Fear suggests. Can't remember what else is there, but I've always thought The Girl I Left Behind Me particularly effective in that top register G key.benhall.1 wrote:I don't venture into the third octave on whistle. Too shrieky. Whoever's playing it.
To me, top D fingerings are determined by tuning more than pressure (which I'm not sure varies that much between them). I treat OXXOOO as standard till proven otherwise, but find some whistles require OXXXXX or even 'leaking T1' versions of XXXOOO or XXXXXX to get it right. So use whichever the whistle needs despite a strong preference for the first two and strongest for the first.Tunborough wrote:On many whistles, OXXOOO gives an in-tune high D without having to push as hard as OXXXXX.