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PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 8:36 am 
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I got a YouTube update email that contained a plug for the new Setanta low whistles released in September. It says they are tuned to equal temperament which sounds like a bonus. Also, McNeela is running a Black Friday special on them. I wondered if anyone had a chance to try these out?

Von

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 9:01 am 
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Never heard of them! Can you give us a link to the YouTube video please?


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 9:08 am 
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Found it at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgoCbfdg-Os. Another Goldie look-alike.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 9:55 am 
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Here's a fuller version with pricing and additional descriptive text from McNeela.

[I have no connection with either the whistles or McNeela, just happened to have gotten the same email.]

Best wishes.

Steve

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 11:54 am 
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Mikethebook wrote:
Another Goldie look-alike.

Not to my eyes. If anything, that method of forming the windway, window and sometimes whole mouthpiece from flattening the tube should be compared to Overton as the first to do it, but the unaltered round sides shown clearly in Steve's link look more Chieftain than Overton/Goldie etc. And the tuning slide is external, so no look-alike there either.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 7:45 pm 
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vonallentx wrote:
I got a YouTube update email that contained a plug for the new Setanta low whistles released in September. It says they are tuned to equal temperament which sounds like a bonus. Also, McNeela is running a Black Friday special on them. I wondered if anyone had a chance to try these out?

Von


Out of curiosity, why is ET a bonus?

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 11:30 pm 
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whistlecollector wrote:
vonallentx wrote:
I got a YouTube update email that contained a plug for the new Setanta low whistles released in September. It says they are tuned to equal temperament which sounds like a bonus. Also, McNeela is running a Black Friday special on them. I wondered if anyone had a chance to try these out?

Von


Out of curiosity, why is ET a bonus?


Playing with orchestras etc.? Other than that, I can't guess. I'm not sure it is a bonus if you are playing traditional music. I'm curious too; something on the edge of my memory about some other whistles in ET, or could be ordered that way, but not clicking.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 3:13 am 
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whistlecollector wrote:
Out of curiosity, why is ET a bonus?


I'm new to whistles and Trad music. It seems to me that whistles are tuned strangely. I don't understand the tuning. The thirds and sevenths don't seem sharp enough to my ear on my Dixon Trad. I thought it was just that one, but it seems to be all of them. When I play against a chromatic tuner, it shows them flat. But I'm understanding that this tuning is normal for whistles. I would love a whistle that is in tune with how I hear music. So ET seems like a bonus to me.

If anyone can explain the tuning of a standard whistle, I'd appreciate it. I find it challenging to blow them "in tune."

The fact that experienced whistle players are designing a whistle that is tuned in ET suggests that I'm
not the only one who has this issue with whistle tuning. If anyone has a suggestion for a High D that's tuned in ET, I'd appreciate it. (But not plastic, please.)

Von

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 7:03 am 
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vonallentx wrote:
whistlecollector wrote:
Out of curiosity, why is ET a bonus?



If anyone can explain the tuning of a standard whistle, I'd appreciate it. I find it challenging to blow them "in tune."

The fact that experienced whistle players are designing a whistle that is tuned in ET suggests that I'm
not the only one who has this issue with whistle tuning. If anyone has a suggestion for a High D that's tuned in ET, I'd appreciate it. (But not plastic, please.)

Von


The first generation Feadogs have very good tuning. They can be found on Ebay for $10 shipped if you are patient and know what you are looking for. The heads are usually easy to adjust. I believe there are pics with each incarnation of the Feadog whistle. Per your question about the standard whistle tuning, I think of Generations with plastic tops and cylindrical bore as the standard bearer and they are not in ET. They were, however, the whistles everyone used when recordings came into the picture. It is my belief that this is why they sound best to many people. It is also my belief that good conical bore whistles sound better in tune and more balanced between octaves. I use a Generation red top on a nickel body as my main whistle, contradicting myself a bit there.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 7:25 am 
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For lengthy discussions of the difference between Equal Temperament (ET) and Just Intonation (JI) temperament, I'll refer you to:
/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=69080
/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=73792
http://www.rogermillington.com/untempered.html

In brief, with Just Intonation, the chords for your chosen key sound purer, more in tune. However, if you change keys with the same tuning, chords for the new key may sound repulsive. With Equal Temperament, the chords in all keys are equally mistuned.

McNeela wrote:
He opted for the highly accurate ‘Equal Temperament’ tuning system which allows the individual player to push, pull and bend notes with the minimum of effort.
There's a dose of snake oil in this. ET is no more nor less "accurate" than any other temperament. Notes on any whistle can be pushed, pulled and bent. On any decent whistle, they can be pushed or pulled enough to play in either Just Intonation or Equal Temperament tuning at the player's discretion. Yes, some whistles may be optimized for ET or JI, so that it is easier for an average player to hit the notes at a particular tuning in the course of a tune. If what you're aiming for is closer to JI though, a whistle optimized for ET won't help you get there.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 7:50 am 
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vonallentx wrote:
If anyone has a suggestion for a High D that's tuned in ET, I'd appreciate it. (But not plastic, please.)

Reyburn Whistles offers either Just or Equal temperaments in metal bodied whistles.

Tunborough wrote:
For lengthy discussions of the difference between Equal Temperament (ET) and Just Intonation (JI) temperament, I'll refer you to:/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=69080

One of my first postings to this forum. Boy, did I get an earful...

Best wishes.

Steve

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"[Some flutists] place the flute between the upper lip and the nose, blowing the instrument from below. This position does not prevent good playing, but it does not look graceful."
~ Antoine Mahaut, 1759 in a tutor for playing the transverse flute ~


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 5:22 pm 
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vonallentx wrote:
whistlecollector wrote:
Out of curiosity, why is ET a bonus?


I'm new to whistles and Trad music. It seems to me that whistles are tuned strangely. I don't understand the tuning. The thirds and sevenths don't seem sharp enough to my ear on my Dixon Trad. I thought it was just that one, but it seems to be all of them. When I play against a chromatic tuner, it shows them flat. But I'm understanding that this tuning is normal for whistles. I would love a whistle that is in tune with how I hear music. So ET seems like a bonus to me.


Interesting. They sound fine to me!

Though one might argue that it's your tuner that's off... :poke:

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 4:44 pm 
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I just received a low D a week ago and am extremely impressed with it so far. It is solidly made with a tuning slide standard - three o-rings. The tone holes are comfortable with no unreasonable stretches (for my hands). The tone is amazing being mostly clear with some chiff. It has a very strong bottom D and is easy to play all the way up and above 2 octaves. The tone and tuning can be pushed pretty easily without 'breaking'. I am very much looking forward to getting more acquainted with it over the upcoming holidays.

I feel comfortable recommending this as a good whistle to get.

Cheers,

Greg


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 2:28 am 
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I too received a Setanta Low D and am equally happy to recommend it. John O'Brien has really done his homework to produce a great easy-to-play all-rounder with excellent balance between octaves. I have little more to say beyond what Greg has already covered. Comparing it with my Goldie (Medium) Low D, the holes are quite large (that's fine with me) though not rounded as deeply as I would like, but that's a personal preference. Also the Setanta doesn't demand a great amount of breath but more than I like; high air efficiency is important to me. So, since I'm biased, Greg, maybe you would comment more realistically on its air requirements.

But for a couple of minor personal quibbles, I would say this is an excellent Low D and I wish John O'Brien great success with his new venture.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 6:12 am 
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vonallentx wrote:

I'm new to whistles and Trad music. It seems to me that whistles are tuned strangely. I don't understand the tuning.




I don't quite understand this.

I've been playing whistles over 40 years, and I currently have vintage Feadogs and Generations and newer Burkes, Goldies, and Albas, and I've owned whistles by many other makers, and they all play in Equal Temperament, or very close.

The differences between Just Intonation (JI) and Equal Temperament (ET) are subtle and within the range of pitch you can get by adjusting your blowing a tad.

The thing is, when you talk of JI you have to begin with what key you're talking about.

So let's say we're talking D. Well then the 3rd (F#) and the 6th (B) should be around 15 cents flat. If you have at ET whistle all you have to do is put a bit of tape on the upper edge of Hole 2 and Hole 5 and your ET whistle is now magically a JI whistle.

People forget that "playing in tune" is relative. If you're playing with an uilleann piper, well, if the chanter is "in tune" then it will be JI and if you play your ET F# and B against the JI F# and B of the chanter you'll be out of tune a tad.

But if you're playing with a guitarist, a banjo player, a pianist, or many other instruments you'll be in tune with them if you're in ET.

The fact is that you can hear an uilleann piper whose chanter is in tune to his drones, "in tune" the way a piper wants it, which is JI, and have that piper playing along with ET instruments such as fretted and keyboard instruments and it sounds just fine.

In like manner an a cappella choir, a brass ensemble, a string ensemble will all be adjusting their 3rds to their JI position to play "in tune" as an ensemble- the sharp ET 3rds would stand out as being "out of tune".


vonallentx wrote:
If anyone has a suggestion for a High D that's tuned in ET, I'd appreciate it.



All of them? Pretty much?

True I've had some Generation D's where the F# was a mile flat, and I carved it out. A number of my Generations and Feadogs have been carved to some extent, though as a rule not transform a JI whistle into an ET whistle, but fix various irregularities of the scale.

I did receive one whistle which was purposely tuned JI, from Ronaldo Reyburn.

BTW being tuned JI isn't the only thing you'll want for playing in tune with an uilleann chanter, another is having high B sharper than low B. Burke whistles tend to have this quirk built in. As for having E in the 2nd octave flatter than E in the low octave, some whistles have that quirk too. (It all depends on the piper... some are very good at masking these tuning quirks, some not so much.)

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