What is the latest thinking of the best low d whistles

The Ultimate On-Line Whistle Community. If you find one more ultimater, let us know.
Mikethebook
Posts: 1803
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 3:04 pm
antispam: No
Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
Tell us something.: May 2022, I'm a second-time beginner to the whistle and low whistle after a three-year gap due to a chest injury brought to an end twelve years of playing. I've started on a high whistle and much is coming back quickly but it will be a while before I can manage a Low D again where my interest really lies. I chiefly love slow airs rather than dance tunes and am a fan of the likes of Davy Spillane, Eoin Duignan, Fred Morrison and Paddy Keenan.
Location: Scotland

Re: What is the latest thinking of the best low d whistles

Post by Mikethebook »

I'm intrigued by Nick Metcalf's new alloy whistle that has a teflon coating to the windway to prevent clogging. He'll be making them early next year, I gather, to sell through eBay and Amazon. I'm hoping someone will buy and review one (its expensive to buy from the UK because of shipping and import duty) because it also has a tapered design, the bore being normal but the tubing thinner towards the top supposedly to even out volume between octaves. It could be an interesting low D to play.
whistle1000
Posts: 460
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2009 12:28 pm

Re: What is the latest thinking of the best low d whistles

Post by whistle1000 »

Nick Metcalfe is pretty active on Facebook and he also has a new website. www.theirishwhistle.com. I just visited the site. He seems to be actively making and marketing whistles. He has some sort explanation for shortcomings there. Maybe visit his site and hopefully you can get some satisfaction from him. This kind of stuff could ruin his reputation and I'd imagine he would/should be very keen on keeping his customers happy and his reputation intact.
Derek Blackwell
Posts: 94
Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2004 4:55 pm
Please enter the next number in sequence: 1
Location: Seattle

Re: What is the latest thinking of the best low d whistles

Post by Derek Blackwell »

Panceltic, what's your preferred surfactant?
User avatar
whistlecollector
Posts: 493
Joined: Mon Jan 13, 2014 3:29 pm
antispam: No
Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
Location: Somewhere between Here and There.

Re: What is the latest thinking of the best low d whistles

Post by whistlecollector »

whistle1000 wrote:Nick Metcalfe is pretty active on Facebook and he also has a new website. http://www.theirishwhistle.com. I just visited the site. He seems to be actively making and marketing whistles. He has some sort explanation for shortcomings there. Maybe visit his site and hopefully you can get some satisfaction from him. This kind of stuff could ruin his reputation and I'd imagine he would/should be very keen on keeping his customers happy and his reputation intact.
Thanks for the update!

I'm glad to see he's still persevering and has changed business models to something, hopefully, much more manageable for him to handle!
-- A tin whistle a day keeps the racketts at bay.

-- WhOAD Survivor No. 11373
User avatar
pancelticpiper
Posts: 5298
Joined: Mon Jul 10, 2006 7:25 am
antispam: No
Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
Tell us something.: Playing Scottish and Irish music in California for 45 years.
These days many discussions are migrating to Facebook but I prefer the online chat forum format.
Location: WV to the OC

Re: What is the latest thinking of the best low d whistles

Post by pancelticpiper »

Derek Blackwell wrote:Panceltic, what's your preferred surfactant?
I just followed the advice from Colin Goldie that our member Mikethebook posted a while back:

"I bought a soft blowing Goldie Low D and had problems with clogging...I spoke to Colin and this is what he suggested I do:

The method uses toothpaste (not the gritty sort) and a filed down dampened wooden lollipop stick (not sure what you call them in the US - popsicle?) - and make sure it goes into the windway easily so it won't break off and get stuck - I guess you could use a thin plastic card too but the wood rends to pick up dirt in the grain. Work toothpaste into the windway and using the dampened stick "polish" the inside of the windway with it. Then, using a cotton bud with toothpaste on it, polish the bevel and also the wall of the block below it to prevent the build up on water on the bevel. Then rinse the whistle out with cold water."

Yes here in the USA the flat wooden stick is called a popsicle stick.

Image

Here, a lollipop stick is round, made of rolled paper.

Image
Richard Cook
c1980 Quinn uilleann pipes
1945 Starck Highland pipes
Goldie Low D whistle
User avatar
pancelticpiper
Posts: 5298
Joined: Mon Jul 10, 2006 7:25 am
antispam: No
Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
Tell us something.: Playing Scottish and Irish music in California for 45 years.
These days many discussions are migrating to Facebook but I prefer the online chat forum format.
Location: WV to the OC

Re: What is the latest thinking of the best low d whistles

Post by pancelticpiper »

Back to the topic of Low D whistles, I'm currently playing a Goldie, switching back and forth between two headjoints.

One, the one that came with the whistle, has a very narrow windway.

The other came with a Goldie-made Overton Low C.

They're both the same ID and the same length and both play fine on the Low D body.

However the Low C head has a higher/more open windway.

I've long known that Colin makes a variety of windway heights. My understanding is that nowadays he engraves the specific height in mm on each whistle. These heads were both made before he started doing that, so I don't know what he would reckon them.

Taking a crude measurement with calipers (in inches) I get .025" for the D head and .037" for the C head.

It's remarkable how differently the D body plays with those different heads.

The narrower windway feels more enclosed/contained, gives a darker rougher tone, slightly greater efficiency, and a slightly stiffer 2nd octave.

The wider windway feels more freeblowing, gives a cleaner brighter tone, slightly less efficiency, a lighter easier 2nd octave, and a slightly more powerful Bottom D.

I can't say one is "better" than the other, they're simply different. I am spending more time on the freeblowing headjoint...
Richard Cook
c1980 Quinn uilleann pipes
1945 Starck Highland pipes
Goldie Low D whistle
Mikethebook
Posts: 1803
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 3:04 pm
antispam: No
Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
Tell us something.: May 2022, I'm a second-time beginner to the whistle and low whistle after a three-year gap due to a chest injury brought to an end twelve years of playing. I've started on a high whistle and much is coming back quickly but it will be a while before I can manage a Low D again where my interest really lies. I chiefly love slow airs rather than dance tunes and am a fan of the likes of Davy Spillane, Eoin Duignan, Fred Morrison and Paddy Keenan.
Location: Scotland

Re: What is the latest thinking of the best low d whistles

Post by Mikethebook »

To clarify Colin's system of windway heights for those who have them etched inside the bottom of their Low Ds:

1.00mm very soft/easy blower
0.97 standard soft blower
0.87 medium blower
0.80mm hard blower, only made to order.

He also makes windway heights between these number so a Low D with 0.93mm etched inside is a medium/soft blower. For a Low C the numbers shouldn't be much different.
User avatar
pancelticpiper
Posts: 5298
Joined: Mon Jul 10, 2006 7:25 am
antispam: No
Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
Tell us something.: Playing Scottish and Irish music in California for 45 years.
These days many discussions are migrating to Facebook but I prefer the online chat forum format.
Location: WV to the OC

Re: What is the latest thinking of the best low d whistles

Post by pancelticpiper »

Thanks for that information!

So, my Goldie D head measures (rough-and-ready measurement holding calipers on top of the windway opening)

.025" or .635mm (dated 2011)

while the C head measures

.037" or .94mm (dated 1999)

That makes the windway on the D head narrower than the narrowest you give.

I just set the calipers on the narrowest you give .8mm/.0315" and it's clearly narrower than that. I still get .025"/.635mm.

Maybe it has a tapered ramp?
Richard Cook
c1980 Quinn uilleann pipes
1945 Starck Highland pipes
Goldie Low D whistle
Mikethebook
Posts: 1803
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 3:04 pm
antispam: No
Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
Tell us something.: May 2022, I'm a second-time beginner to the whistle and low whistle after a three-year gap due to a chest injury brought to an end twelve years of playing. I've started on a high whistle and much is coming back quickly but it will be a while before I can manage a Low D again where my interest really lies. I chiefly love slow airs rather than dance tunes and am a fan of the likes of Davy Spillane, Eoin Duignan, Fred Morrison and Paddy Keenan.
Location: Scotland

Re: What is the latest thinking of the best low d whistles

Post by Mikethebook »

Don't understand at all. What do mean by a tapered ramp?
User avatar
kkrell
Posts: 4831
Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2002 6:00 pm
antispam: No
Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
Tell us something.: Mostly producer of the Wooden Flute Obsession 3-volume 6-CD 7-hour set of mostly player's choice of Irish tunes, played mostly solo, on mostly wooden flutes by approximately 120 different mostly highly-rated traditional flute players & are mostly...
Location: Los Angeles
Contact:

Re: What is the latest thinking of the best low d whistles

Post by kkrell »

Richard, I don't understand how narrowness relates to height - I always think of it in regard to width, not height.
User avatar
pancelticpiper
Posts: 5298
Joined: Mon Jul 10, 2006 7:25 am
antispam: No
Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
Tell us something.: Playing Scottish and Irish music in California for 45 years.
These days many discussions are migrating to Facebook but I prefer the online chat forum format.
Location: WV to the OC

Re: What is the latest thinking of the best low d whistles

Post by pancelticpiper »

It's just different ways of saying the same thing, I guess. I'm using "narrow" and "wide" to refer to the vertical plane, like in "he opened his eyes wide" and "she narrowed her eyes" (the eyelids are widening and narrowing from below and above, not from the sides).

But if "higher" and "lower" are the preferred terms I should use them. Yes I'm talking about vertical distances.

(To me "high" and "low" are about an object's position in space, not about the relative width or narrowness of an aperture, but maybe that's just me.)
Richard Cook
c1980 Quinn uilleann pipes
1945 Starck Highland pipes
Goldie Low D whistle
User avatar
kkrell
Posts: 4831
Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2002 6:00 pm
antispam: No
Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
Tell us something.: Mostly producer of the Wooden Flute Obsession 3-volume 6-CD 7-hour set of mostly player's choice of Irish tunes, played mostly solo, on mostly wooden flutes by approximately 120 different mostly highly-rated traditional flute players & are mostly...
Location: Los Angeles
Contact:

Re: What is the latest thinking of the best low d whistles

Post by kkrell »

Show me on this doll where they hurt you
Image
International Traditional Music Society, Inc.
A non-profit 501c3 charity/educational public benefit corporation
Wooden Flute Obsession CDs (3 volumes, 6 discs, 7 hours, 120 players/tracks)
https://www.worldtrad.org
Adrian W.
Posts: 275
Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2008 11:39 am

Re: What is the latest thinking of the best low d whistles

Post by Adrian W. »

Mikethebook wrote:To clarify Colin's system of windway heights for those who have them etched inside the bottom of their Low Ds:

1.00mm very soft/easy blower
0.97 standard soft blower
0.87 medium blower
0.80mm hard blower, only made to order.

He also makes windway heights between these number so a Low D with 0.93mm etched inside is a medium/soft blower. For a Low C the numbers shouldn't be much different.
I've been looking for this info, and trying to understand, as I'm going to order one if I can get the money together... does this mean the .97 'soft blower' is his standard?... that's what most people order?... and some smaller percentage order the medium blower? I've been in rooms with them, but always busy, and I don't know anyone with one well enough to get into it with them. The only ones I see around here are passing through with musicians.
In Cape Breton, Nova Scotia
Mikethebook
Posts: 1803
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 3:04 pm
antispam: No
Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
Tell us something.: May 2022, I'm a second-time beginner to the whistle and low whistle after a three-year gap due to a chest injury brought to an end twelve years of playing. I've started on a high whistle and much is coming back quickly but it will be a while before I can manage a Low D again where my interest really lies. I chiefly love slow airs rather than dance tunes and am a fan of the likes of Davy Spillane, Eoin Duignan, Fred Morrison and Paddy Keenan.
Location: Scotland

Re: What is the latest thinking of the best low d whistles

Post by Mikethebook »

I wrote standard soft blower to differentiate it from very soft blower which is not a whistle he makes regularly. Normally the 0.97mm is the softest low D he makes. But, though I'm guessing, it's probably the most popular choice too. It was my first Goldie. Despite its name I should say it is by no means a free blower and has a moderate amount of backpressure probably akin to something like the MK Pro from what others have told me. Colin's medium blower has quite a high amount of backpressure, much more than most other Low Ds.
User avatar
pancelticpiper
Posts: 5298
Joined: Mon Jul 10, 2006 7:25 am
antispam: No
Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
Tell us something.: Playing Scottish and Irish music in California for 45 years.
These days many discussions are migrating to Facebook but I prefer the online chat forum format.
Location: WV to the OC

Re: What is the latest thinking of the best low d whistles

Post by pancelticpiper »

Mikethebook wrote:Don't understand at all. What do mean by a tapered ramp?
The first Low Whistle I ever saw or heard played in person was an early Bernard Overton Low D owned by local player Chris Moran, in the late 1970s. Chris had recently returned from a period living in Ireland and he may of got the Overton there.

Chris had removed the alloy block and replaced it with a self-made one. It was some kind of black plastic.

It was a bit loose so it could be raised, lowered, and tilted a bit. Chris would sometimes fuss with it, to get a certain sweet spot he wanted.

I could be wrong but I think he had it angled a bit, wider where you blow and narrower at the window. This is what I meant by "tapered ramp".

He developed that skill of inhaling through the mouthpiece to keep the windway from clogging as he played. I don't know if the toothpastse and dish detergent tricks had been thought of back then.
Richard Cook
c1980 Quinn uilleann pipes
1945 Starck Highland pipes
Goldie Low D whistle
Post Reply