Tapered Windway

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Mikethebook
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Tapered Windway

Post by Mikethebook »

I'm curious to know the effect of a tapered windway. I believe the Dixon tapered bore Low D also has a tapered windway, width-wise. Off hand I don't know of any other whistles that have one but Davy Spillane supposedly modified his original Overton by adjusting the block to produce a tapered windway in height. So what does it do?

For example, if you had a whistle with a 1.0mm high normal parallel windway and made an otherwise identical whistle that had a windway exit height of I.00mm but a higher entrance height, what would be the differences in backpressure, breath requirements and balance between octaves?
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hans
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Re: Tapered Windway

Post by hans »

I taper the windway width. The width at the mouth end is a little wider than at the window end. It helps the flow (less resistance) and thereby clogging resistance. The rounded windway also assists clogging resistance, as does very fine smoothing internally, as does not having the windway height too little. But the height is a big factor for the amount of air flow and what you may call backpressure, in combination with the width at the windway.
trill
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Re: Tapered Windway

Post by trill »

How hard can whistles be ?

After all, it's simply Physics 101, right ?

Length of the air column, speed of sound, drill a few holes, no probs, right ?

Hah !

Having spent hours in my garage with drills, files, wood, and pvc, a laptop with an FFT, I'm here to say "it ain't that simple".

Honestly, one brush of the file, one mis-alligned cut, and you're toast.

One eye-opener: swap fipples and tubes and look at the voices. The voice follows the fipple !

God bless Mr. Dixon, Mr. Misha Sommerville, Mr. Reyburn, and the Sweet family. They know how to make beautifully voiced instruments.

They're worth every penny I've ever spent.
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Re: Tapered Windway

Post by Reyburnwhistles »

I taper the vertical dimension of the windways on all of my whistles. As Hans has pointed out this reduces the back pressure and makes it easier to hit the upper notes of the second octave. Also reduces buildup of moisture in the airway.

I'm able to achieve this by cutting the airway into the fipple plug which is generally not done by most makers.

Ronaldo
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Mikethebook
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Location: Scotland

Re: Tapered Windway

Post by Mikethebook »

Thanks for the replies. Interesting! If it helps with the upper notes of the second octave - something I'm always after - how does it affect the first octave? And how does it differ in effect from shortening the window length which also makes the upper octave easier.
Mikethebook
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Tell us something.: May 2022, I'm a second-time beginner to the whistle and low whistle after a three-year gap due to a chest injury brought to an end twelve years of playing. I've started on a high whistle and much is coming back quickly but it will be a while before I can manage a Low D again where my interest really lies. I chiefly love slow airs rather than dance tunes and am a fan of the likes of Davy Spillane, Eoin Duignan, Fred Morrison and Paddy Keenan.
Location: Scotland

Re: Tapered Windway

Post by Mikethebook »

Ronaldo, I've sent you a PM.
Tommy
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Re: Tapered Windway

Post by Tommy »

Feadog whistles have a tapered wind way.
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Jerry Freeman
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Re: Tapered Windway

Post by Jerry Freeman »

The windway in all Generation type whistles (Generation, Feadog, Waltons, etc.) is tapered slightly to allow "draft" (mold clearance) for the part of the mold that sticks inside the windway during injection molding. If the windway were not tapered slightly, the whistlehead would get stuck inside the mold. However, the amount of taper is not very much. I wouldn't consider Feadog, etc. windways to be "tapered" the way I would consider whistles where the taper has been designed for acoustic and playability reasons.
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Mikethebook
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Tell us something.: May 2022, I'm a second-time beginner to the whistle and low whistle after a three-year gap due to a chest injury brought to an end twelve years of playing. I've started on a high whistle and much is coming back quickly but it will be a while before I can manage a Low D again where my interest really lies. I chiefly love slow airs rather than dance tunes and am a fan of the likes of Davy Spillane, Eoin Duignan, Fred Morrison and Paddy Keenan.
Location: Scotland

Re: Tapered Windway

Post by Mikethebook »

It would seem like tapering width-wise is not uncommon whereas tapering of the vertical dimension of the windway like Ronaldo does is perhaps not so widely used. Anyone know of other whistles where the height of the windway is tapered?
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brewerpaul
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Re: Tapered Windway

Post by brewerpaul »

Reyburnwhistles wrote:I taper the vertical dimension of the windways on all of my whistles. As Hans has pointed out this reduces the back pressure and makes it easier to hit the upper notes of the second octave. Also reduces buildup of moisture in the airway.

I'm able to achieve this by cutting the airway into the fipple plug which is generally not done by most makers.

Ronaldo
http://www.reyburnwhistles.com
I know a certain well known whistler who likes my whistles quiet playing but finds that they can't handle the huge volume of air she puts out in performance. I've been toying with the idea of making the windway higher at the entrance tapering down to my usual height at the exit. This would be by simply filing and sanding the plug. I kind of doubt this will achieve my purpose though. I'm not equipped to cut the windway into the plug. Any other ideas?
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Re: Tapered Windway

Post by nicx66 »

brewerpaul wrote:
Reyburnwhistles wrote:I taper the vertical dimension of the windways on all of my whistles. As Hans has pointed out this reduces the back pressure and makes it easier to hit the upper notes of the second octave. Also reduces buildup of moisture in the airway.

I'm able to achieve this by cutting the airway into the fipple plug which is generally not done by most makers.

Ronaldo
http://www.reyburnwhistles.com
I know a certain well known whistler who likes my whistles quiet playing but finds that they can't handle the huge volume of air she puts out in performance. I've been toying with the idea of making the windway higher at the entrance tapering down to my usual height at the exit. This would be by simply filing and sanding the plug. I kind of doubt this will achieve my purpose though. I'm not equipped to cut the windway into the plug. Any other ideas?
Perhaps flatten the fipple dowel so that the bottom of the windway is flat, while keeping the top curved, creating a shape similar to a Clarke or O'Roirdan. This would be a pretty drastic change from your standard designs and would require you to re-work the blade as well. I still think it is easier than putting a channel into a dowel, which as you mentioned, is quite difficult without some sort of static jig/mandrel/punch or other specialized tool
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Re: Tapered Windway

Post by brewerpaul »

nicx66 wrote:
Perhaps flatten the fipple dowel so that the bottom of the windway is flat, while keeping the top curved, creating a shape similar to a Clarke or O'Roirdan. This would be a pretty drastic change from your standard designs and would require you to re-work the blade as well.
Yes, flattening the fipple is the only dimension that's readily variable in my design. Problem is that this would put the top of the fipple well below the inside surface of the blade which I think would make higher notes very hard to play. The relation between the top of the fipple and bottom of the blade is inherent in the concentric design of my (and many other makers')whistle. I might have to build up the bottom of the blade with something like epoxy and then shape it by hand to match the top of the fipple. I do have some orphan wooden tubes whose mates self destructed on the lathe, so some experimenting is in order.
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