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 Post subject: Tapered Windway
PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 12:59 am 
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I'm curious to know the effect of a tapered windway. I believe the Dixon tapered bore Low D also has a tapered windway, width-wise. Off hand I don't know of any other whistles that have one but Davy Spillane supposedly modified his original Overton by adjusting the block to produce a tapered windway in height. So what does it do?

For example, if you had a whistle with a 1.0mm high normal parallel windway and made an otherwise identical whistle that had a windway exit height of I.00mm but a higher entrance height, what would be the differences in backpressure, breath requirements and balance between octaves?


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 Post subject: Re: Tapered Windway
PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 2:17 am 
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I taper the windway width. The width at the mouth end is a little wider than at the window end. It helps the flow (less resistance) and thereby clogging resistance. The rounded windway also assists clogging resistance, as does very fine smoothing internally, as does not having the windway height too little. But the height is a big factor for the amount of air flow and what you may call backpressure, in combination with the width at the windway.

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 Post subject: Re: Tapered Windway
PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 3:26 am 
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How hard can whistles be ?

After all, it's simply Physics 101, right ?

Length of the air column, speed of sound, drill a few holes, no probs, right ?

Hah !

Having spent hours in my garage with drills, files, wood, and pvc, a laptop with an FFT, I'm here to say "it ain't that simple".

Honestly, one brush of the file, one mis-alligned cut, and you're toast.

One eye-opener: swap fipples and tubes and look at the voices. The voice follows the fipple !

God bless Mr. Dixon, Mr. Misha Sommerville, Mr. Reyburn, and the Sweet family. They know how to make beautifully voiced instruments.

They're worth every penny I've ever spent.


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 Post subject: Re: Tapered Windway
PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 11:08 am 
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I taper the vertical dimension of the windways on all of my whistles. As Hans has pointed out this reduces the back pressure and makes it easier to hit the upper notes of the second octave. Also reduces buildup of moisture in the airway.

I'm able to achieve this by cutting the airway into the fipple plug which is generally not done by most makers.

Ronaldo
www.reyburnwhistles.com


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 Post subject: Re: Tapered Windway
PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 11:44 am 
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Thanks for the replies. Interesting! If it helps with the upper notes of the second octave - something I'm always after - how does it affect the first octave? And how does it differ in effect from shortening the window length which also makes the upper octave easier.


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 Post subject: Re: Tapered Windway
PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 2:52 pm 
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Ronaldo, I've sent you a PM.


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 Post subject: Re: Tapered Windway
PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 7:45 am 
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Feadog whistles have a tapered wind way.

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 Post subject: Re: Tapered Windway
PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 2:24 pm 
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The windway in all Generation type whistles (Generation, Feadog, Waltons, etc.) is tapered slightly to allow "draft" (mold clearance) for the part of the mold that sticks inside the windway during injection molding. If the windway were not tapered slightly, the whistlehead would get stuck inside the mold. However, the amount of taper is not very much. I wouldn't consider Feadog, etc. windways to be "tapered" the way I would consider whistles where the taper has been designed for acoustic and playability reasons.

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 Post subject: Re: Tapered Windway
PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2017 1:27 am 
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It would seem like tapering width-wise is not uncommon whereas tapering of the vertical dimension of the windway like Ronaldo does is perhaps not so widely used. Anyone know of other whistles where the height of the windway is tapered?


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 Post subject: Re: Tapered Windway
PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2017 6:44 am 
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Reyburnwhistles wrote:
I taper the vertical dimension of the windways on all of my whistles. As Hans has pointed out this reduces the back pressure and makes it easier to hit the upper notes of the second octave. Also reduces buildup of moisture in the airway.

I'm able to achieve this by cutting the airway into the fipple plug which is generally not done by most makers.

Ronaldo
http://www.reyburnwhistles.com


I know a certain well known whistler who likes my whistles quiet playing but finds that they can't handle the huge volume of air she puts out in performance. I've been toying with the idea of making the windway higher at the entrance tapering down to my usual height at the exit. This would be by simply filing and sanding the plug. I kind of doubt this will achieve my purpose though. I'm not equipped to cut the windway into the plug. Any other ideas?

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 Post subject: Re: Tapered Windway
PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 10:09 am 
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brewerpaul wrote:
Reyburnwhistles wrote:
I taper the vertical dimension of the windways on all of my whistles. As Hans has pointed out this reduces the back pressure and makes it easier to hit the upper notes of the second octave. Also reduces buildup of moisture in the airway.

I'm able to achieve this by cutting the airway into the fipple plug which is generally not done by most makers.

Ronaldo
http://www.reyburnwhistles.com


I know a certain well known whistler who likes my whistles quiet playing but finds that they can't handle the huge volume of air she puts out in performance. I've been toying with the idea of making the windway higher at the entrance tapering down to my usual height at the exit. This would be by simply filing and sanding the plug. I kind of doubt this will achieve my purpose though. I'm not equipped to cut the windway into the plug. Any other ideas?


Perhaps flatten the fipple dowel so that the bottom of the windway is flat, while keeping the top curved, creating a shape similar to a Clarke or O'Roirdan. This would be a pretty drastic change from your standard designs and would require you to re-work the blade as well. I still think it is easier than putting a channel into a dowel, which as you mentioned, is quite difficult without some sort of static jig/mandrel/punch or other specialized tool


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 Post subject: Re: Tapered Windway
PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 7:02 am 
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nicx66 wrote:

Perhaps flatten the fipple dowel so that the bottom of the windway is flat, while keeping the top curved, creating a shape similar to a Clarke or O'Roirdan. This would be a pretty drastic change from your standard designs and would require you to re-work the blade as well.


Yes, flattening the fipple is the only dimension that's readily variable in my design. Problem is that this would put the top of the fipple well below the inside surface of the blade which I think would make higher notes very hard to play. The relation between the top of the fipple and bottom of the blade is inherent in the concentric design of my (and many other makers')whistle. I might have to build up the bottom of the blade with something like epoxy and then shape it by hand to match the top of the fipple. I do have some orphan wooden tubes whose mates self destructed on the lathe, so some experimenting is in order.

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