Feedback on Chinese Knockoff of John Sindt

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freya08
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Feedback on Chinese Knockoff of John Sindt

Post by freya08 »

Feedback on China Clone of John Sindt
I’ve come around the China dupe of John Sindt a few months ago and the sound sample provided by the seller is just surprised me for that price range for a whistle. Also, I’ve come across threads about these clones. I understand that most of you here come from Europe, UK, the USA or Canada and this post may not be relevant to you here. I’m by no mean trying to do a review here but only to reply to those threads and give my own feedback to the dupe to fill in the gap in this forum. Please note that I still consider myself a beginner since I’m just a few years into playing the whistle and I’ve not had any relations with any trad player in my area therefore my experience with this dupe may not be very accurate.

Currently, I don’t own any Lir, John Sindt, Killarney nor Mcneela Wild whistle cannot compare the real things to this dupe but I can compare it to the whistle that I’ve played. But this is the best sounding whistle I’ve ever owned until now compared to my Clarke Sweetone, Tony Dixon and Susato Oriole. I took the chance to buy this set of whistle just because I don’t own an Eb whistle and I’m very happy with the sound sample provided by the seller. Please don’t judge my choice for spending 60 dollars on a set of whistle instead of saving up for the real deal.

Whistle: Sweetheart(not the same as Sweetheart Flue Co.) (previously known as Wizard as the seller claimed) in D, C and Eb
Available from: no link will be provided unless asked, I’m not writing an ad :)
Models Available: D, C, Eb whistle in brass and nickel bodies and “non-toxic POM” tip (can be POM-C or POM-H aka Delrin)
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Construction: Tunable brass mouthpiece with a
Price at the time: 298 Chinese Yuan(45.85 USD) for a D/C/Eb, 349(53.7 USD) for a set of one head and body of D and C, 399(61.4USD) for a set of one head and body of D, C and Eb. Free shipping in Mainland China but not international shipping. International shipping must be arranged by the buyer.
Weight: The head of the while is 28 grams and the weight of the D body is 35 gram, which makes the D whistle weighted 63 gram, slightly lighter than a 70 gram Killarney. The whole package is around 0.32kg for a set of D, C and Eb
Length: 29.4cm
Appearance: the brass tarnishes very quickly, leaving patina in the first 30 minutes of playing. The seller has also claimed that the mouthpiece is hand-finished. Personally, I don't know how to see signs of hand-finished but the whistle has some obvious flaws and scratches. But the whistle has no any mark of the brand nor the key of the whistle on the body. I've to guess the key by the length.
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The mouthpiece looks more like a John Sindt than a Killarney since the pin is not protruding.
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The seller claims the holes are not smoothened very well to cut the price, but I have no problem with the holes. Also, the brass is not treated. It’s advised to wipe it dry after playing to prevent rusting.
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Also, it came with a sticker stick on the whistle sloppily. If you don't want to leave marks on your whistle when it starts to tarnish, I recommend removing the sticker instant when it arrives.
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Tone:sound sample included as a YouTube video, which you can find at the bottom.
Playing Characteristics: low air requirement
Volume: not ear piecing at all compared to a Tony Dixon. With an average of 81 dB when played close to a sound level meter on my phone, this whistle may not be very good for session.
Tuning: impressive of tuning range because it’s a direct copy of a John Sindt? Claimed to d’-g’’’ octave.
Clogging: I’ve never clogged any whistle beside a Susato, this whistle does not cause any problem for me. No warm-up is needed in my case.

Sound clips of the whistle:
https://youtu.be/IxKgi16qUy0
*Please note that this is merely a sound sample provided by a beginner in whistling. Please excuse my unprofessional playing and take it with a pinch of salt. I am comparing it to Clarke Sweetone to give you a baseline to let you know how much is my false and how many is the whistle false. Also, I’m recording from my phone and videos uploaded to YouTube has the sound altered a bit, you can compare it to your own Sweetone if you own one.
Narzog
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Re: Feedback on Chinese Knockoff of John Sindt

Post by Narzog »

Glad you are enjoying it. Thats a very good price, even shipped internationally I think it would be a good deal. I bought a drill bit the other day from ebay, was $3, with free shipping from China. But some sellers are less good at getting cheap shipping, sometimes I buy a small item thats not even far away and its $10 shipping, so who knows what the international shipping cost would be.

Some people may not like that this maker copied the other makers, but to me most makers are copying another. Theres only so many efficient ways to make a whistle. On my quest to make a full set of my own whistles, I tried really hard to innovate. In the end I just ended up making some shearwater lookalikes. Which isn't a bad thing, just not exactly original.
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Re: Feedback on Chinese Knockoff of John Sindt

Post by Ultratone »

From the video I'd say it sounds much more breathy and less pure than a killarney. But the specific recording setup plays a big role..
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Re: Feedback on Chinese Knockoff of John Sindt

Post by Qiufan Zhu »

Killarney is also copied Mr Sindt.Is this really a good thing to do?I don't like it.The maker is still alive
Last edited by Qiufan Zhu on Sat Mar 13, 2021 4:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
freya08
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Re: Feedback on Chinese Knockoff of John Sindt

Post by freya08 »

Ultratone wrote:From the video I'd say it sounds much more breathy and less pure than a killarney. But the specific recording setup plays a big role..
That's definitely my false since I'm just recording from my phone. Therefore I also include a sound sample from Clarke Sweetone in the hope of filling the gap of my poor setup. But the knockoff is definitely purer than my Sweetone and Dixon Pro. :waah:
Qiufan Zhu wrote:I‘m Chinese.The price now is 293CNY.free shipping in China.Even in China,the price is cheap.Killarney is also copied Mr Sindt.Is this really a good thing to do?I don't like it.The maker is still alive.I've heard that some people have patented what they've copied in China.
Thank you for your update on the price and I've never heard that people are patenting their copies in China. I will definitely be more aware of that before purchasing another knockoff from China. But I'm inspired to get a knockoff after seeing McNeela's Wild Irish Whisle came out. I'm definitely wanna get some good quality handmade or hand-finished whistles however I still consider myself a beginner and I don't think I'll do justice to high-quality whistles. Therefore I just opt for a knockoff first in case I ruin or kill high-quality whistles.
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Re: Feedback on Chinese Knockoff of John Sindt

Post by Peter Duggan »

freya08 wrote:Also, the brass is not treated. It’s advised to wipe it dry after playing to prevent rusting.
Brass doesn't rust.
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freya08
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Re: Feedback on Chinese Knockoff of John Sindt

Post by freya08 »

Peter Duggan wrote:
freya08 wrote:Also, the brass is not treated. It’s advised to wipe it dry after playing to prevent rusting.
Brass doesn't rust.
Sorry about my unclear description, I just translated it directly from the product description from the seller. The seller must have meant tarnishing because this knockoff tarnish real quick.
freya08
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Re: Feedback on Chinese Knockoff of John Sindt

Post by freya08 »

Ultratone wrote:From the video I'd say it sounds much more breathy and less pure than a killarney. But the specific recording setup plays a big role..
That's definitely my false since I'm recording on my phone. :waah: Therefore I included a sample from Clarke Sweetone as a baseline.
Qiufan Zhu wrote:Killarney is also copied Mr Sindt.Is this really a good thing to do?I don't like it.The maker is still alive
Originally, I got inspired to buy a copy of Sindt when the Wild Irish Whistle came out and thought I may just take a chance. I still consider myself as beginners and I don't want to buy a high-quality handmade or hand-finished whistle and kill it accidentally. Therefore I just opt for a cheaper alternative for now. I hope that I'll get a high-quality whistle one day.
Peter Duggan wrote:
freya08 wrote:Also, the brass is not treated. It’s advised to wipe it dry after playing to prevent rusting.
Brass doesn't rust.
Sorry about the translation, I just quote this directly from the description of the seller. The seller must have meant tarnishing instead of rusting since this whistle tarnish very quickly.
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Re: Feedback on Chinese Knockoff of John Sindt

Post by Narzog »

freya08 wrote: Originally, I got inspired to buy a copy of Sindt when the Wild Irish Whistle came out and thought I may just take a chance. I still consider myself as beginners and I don't want to buy a high-quality handmade or hand-finished whistle and kill it accidentally. Therefore I just opt for a cheaper alternative for now. I hope that I'll get a high-quality whistle one day.
Theres no shame in having a 'copy' instead of the origional. Many players really like their cheap Generations and Feadogs, and those are super cheap and not hand made. So if you like this one, theres no need to have to spend more and go hand made. Thats said eventually if you want to try something else go for it.
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Re: Feedback on Chinese Knockoff of John Sindt

Post by Qiufan Zhu »

freya08 wrote:
Ultratone wrote:From the video I'd say it sounds much more breathy and less pure than a killarney. But the specific recording setup plays a big role..
That's definitely my false since I'm recording on my phone. :waah: Therefore I included a sample from Clarke Sweetone as a baseline.
Qiufan Zhu wrote:Killarney is also copied Mr Sindt.Is this really a good thing to do?I don't like it.The maker is still alive
Originally, I got inspired to buy a copy of Sindt when the Wild Irish Whistle came out and thought I may just take a chance. I still consider myself as beginners and I don't want to buy a high-quality handmade or hand-finished whistle and kill it accidentally. Therefore I just opt for a cheaper alternative for now. I hope that I'll get a high-quality whistle one day.
Peter Duggan wrote:
freya08 wrote:Also, the brass is not treated. It’s advised to wipe it dry after playing to prevent rusting.
Brass doesn't rust.
Sorry about the translation, I just quote this directly from the description of the seller. The seller must have meant tarnishing instead of rusting since this whistle tarnish very quickly.

I suggest you buy some better whistles.A nice whistle is easier to control and give you confidence and also save your money.A high quality whistle is not expensive for American and Westerner,I guess.I don't know where you from.
Why not contact Mr Sindt?He is still making whistles now.......a long waiting list.You will be good at whistle when you get his whistles.
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Re: Feedback on Chinese Knockoff of John Sindt

Post by Tyler DelGregg »

I read a post on this forum some time ago about Mr. Sindt's reaction to the Killarney. He was very gracious and said something along the lines of, "I suppose there are only certain ways whistles can be made." Class guy
I play the Killarney myself. The most recent Killarneys have the brand etched on the head to distinguish them from similar whistles.
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Re: Feedback on Chinese Knockoff of John Sindt

Post by Katharine »

Qiufan Zhu wrote:A high quality whistle is not expensive for American and Westerner,I guess.
Not necessarily true for many people.
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Re: Feedback on Chinese Knockoff of John Sindt

Post by Squeeky Elf »

Can I ask you something? If Lir, Killarney, and Mcneela all get to copy John Sindt's design and be called 'the real things' then why is a whistle made by someone in China a 'knock off' and a 'dupe?'
“Go not to the Elves for counsel, for they will say both no and yes.”
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Re: Feedback on Chinese Knockoff of John Sindt

Post by freya08 »

Squeeky Elf wrote:Can I ask you something? If Lir, Killarney, and Mcneela all get to copy John Sindt's design and be called 'the real things' then why is a whistle made by someone in China a 'knock off' and a 'dupe?'
I call it 'a dupe' and 'a knock off' mainly because they are the wording used in other threads commenting on 'fake John Sindt' on Aliexpress. I thought it may be easier to follow these threads with these wordings. And most importantly, Lir, Killarney and Mcneela all have their own modification on the original design of John Sindt but the whistle that I've is just a direct copy. I didn’t mean any harm. Also, I doubt if it's hand-finished. I think it's more of a factory-made whistle. But I will be very surprised if it's machine-made completely, I've heard a lot of bad things about the quality control of factory-made models but this whistle doesn't have any problem that normally comes with a cheap whistle. :)
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Re: Feedback on Chinese Knockoff of John Sindt

Post by bigsciota »

Squeeky Elf wrote:Can I ask you something? If Lir, Killarney, and Mcneela all get to copy John Sindt's design and be called 'the real things' then why is a whistle made by someone in China a 'knock off' and a 'dupe?'
There are two very different concepts of how to copy a design, with vastly different outcomes even though the end product may look the same.

One could be called "inside-out," where someone takes an object (in this case a Sindt whistle) and thinks "how does it do what it does?" They create a copy that is designed to act and perform as close to the original as possible. Often, the person copying is someone who knows the function of the object intimately. Killarney is a good example of this, since it is a whistle made by people who play the whistle quite well, and they have made a whistle that shares many of the playing characteristics of a Sindt.

The other could be called "outside-in," and it's all about creating an object that looks like the original for a quick sale. The actual use or characteristics of the object matter a lot less, it's all about making something that simply appears to be that way. Unfortunately, a lot of mass-produced instruments from China, Pakistan, and elsewhere that you see on eBay, Amazon, Ali Baba, etc. are exactly this, a flute/guitar/ukulele/whistle/etc.-shaped object that looks just enough like the real thing that people will buy it. Generally speaking these are terrible, although random chance sometimes makes one into an acceptable or even good instrument.

That's not to say that everything made in China or Pakistan or bought on an online storefront is bad. I've got some (not whistles but other instruments) that are exceptional, and incredible value for what I paid. They are all made in that "inside-out" method, obviously designed by someone who knew what they were doing. It's very much not fair to tar everything with the same brush. However, as a general rule, being highly skeptical is worth it, because there are so many made just to look nice and sell.
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