MK low D measurements?

[Mikethebook]

Of the three whistles I mentioned, the Goldie and MK pro will play a note for the same length of time

You can't easily generalise about Goldies. A Goldie soft blower is roughly comparable to the MK in this respect but Colin's medium blower, with much higher backpressure (or resistance) will play a note for much longer.

[pancelticpiper]

I notice the debate about "backpressure" above, its effects, the correctness of the term.

It's not something perceptible to me, not worth discussing for me.

Since I'm not a whistle maker it's beyond my purview to speculate on the effects that backpressure has on whistle performance. All I know is what a whistle does. I don't know or care why.

As I've said before I'm a Highland piper and I've never played any whistle that has perceptible resistance. If somebody it put off by the resistance of a whistle, try blowing a new pipe chanter reed!

Which brings to mind something: many Highland reedmakers and even some customers are purchasing manometers so that there's a consistent language concerning reed strengths. I wonder what "high backpressure" whistles would register?

A "medium" pipe chanter reed is around 30 inches of water or around 1 PSI.

[D Mc]

In response to Mikethebook.


That could be. I do not have enough experience with other whistles to speak about them. Of the ones I own, it seems the resistance that is felt when blowing a note is purely a function of how much the air way is restricted. I can certainly see how concentrating the air flow could achieve a longer playing note. However, from the whistles that I have, there are other factors at play that control the total volume of air needed to sustain that note. The Onyx being a good example. It will play on the lightest of breathes. So the air used is a more of a function of lung, breath control and the desired volume. With care, a note can be held for a long time. This is what makes me believe that air and the efficiency of its use are tied to more than just the resistance produced within the wind way.

[Mikethebook]

All other things being equal, a narrower windway height will produce more resistance/backpressure and the whistle will require less breath, the second octave being harder to get. But, as you say, there are plenty of other factors involved, a major one being the length of the window. A longer window will strengthen the first octave notes and make for a much harder second octave. A shorter window will make for an easy second/third octave at the expense of strength in the first octave notes. So you could have a narrow windway using minimal air requirements but also have an easy to reach upper octave.

Another factor has to do with how the whistle maker himself plays, how he tunes them and designs them to be played. Some require much less breath, as you say, and have to be played softer to be in tune. Goldies, on the other hand, need to be blown with confidence. There are many factors at work.

[Reyburnwhistles]

I've always wondered how a maker can designate how much backpressure (resistance) their instruments have compared to another makers instruments unless they actually have the other instrument to blow into. From my perspective a maker can only say how much backpressure their whistles have relative to what they have already been making. And who knows where they started from.

When I started making whistles, almost 20 years ago, I made a manometer (which Pancelticpiper referred to above) which actually measures the relative pressure to play the instrument. I say "relative" because it depends on how much water is in the tube, how steep the angle of the tube is (which determines how much pressure to lift the water) when you use it. However, I was only using it to see if the pressure was steadily increasing as the scale was ascending and had no idea what other makers were using regarding the overall pressure to play their instruments.

I've not played a lot of other makers instruments, but from the few I've played, the pressure to play them has varied greatly. Years ago I picked up a used Burke Low D and the backpressure was so low and the volume requirement so large that I couldn't get the tone I was looking for. I once took a Syn high d in trade and the volume of air required to play was so low as well as the pressure that I had to occasionally stop playing and breathe out to balance my breath.

So when I tell a customer that I can make them a medium blower it is only relative to what I originally made (which required very little pressure to play). So I don't see any standard about backpressure (resistance) that anyone can use to describe how their whistle plays without something like a manometer or something more sophisticated to measure the actual pressure.

I have come up with a way for my customers to determine how much pressure is necessary to play my instruments which goes like this. Set the tuning slide on the line cut into the top of the body tube and in a 70 degree room (the speed of sound is greatly affected by temperature) blow into the instrument until their tuner shows it in tune relative to A-440. I have found that most players underblow my instruments as they are used to playing an instrument that requires less pressure to play. Since I've been making wind instruments for about 25 years and I practice a form of breathwork (Pranaflo) my lungs are quite developed which I figure accounts for this difference.

I figure the only way anyone can communicate a certain level of backpressure (resistance) is by referring to a known pressure on a given make of instrument (like folks are doing in this thread using MK as a reference).

Just my 2 cents
http://www.reyburnwhistles.com

[Matt NQ]

From my point of view of wanting a whistle that will give my bronchitic lungs a reasonable workout, what I'm learning - correct me if I'm wrong - is that there are two distinctly different ways in which a whistle can do that for me. On the one hand, it can provide a decent level of resistance requiring my lungs to push against it. On the other hand, it can require a decent amount of air and require my lungs to take nice deep breaths and work constantly to keep the air flowing. It will be interesting to discover what balance of these hits the sweet spot for my lungs - in a low D whistle with smaller-hand friendly ergonomics. Haven't heard anything so far that would suggest the MK is a bad choice in that regard.

The whistle I returned (and that is now returning to me due to the customs mix-up) is a Chieftain Thunderbird with 3 bodies - D, Eb and E. Hole 5 on the low D was just too big for me. However the Eb was playable, if difficult (big stretch on the lower hand, bigger than on the D), as was the E. I returned them thinking that it wasn't a great investment as it was the D that I would need for the majority of tunes. I'm beginning to wonder, though, if my budget can stretch to it, if I might get the MK for my D, and hold onto the Thunderbird and actively find tunes for the Eb and E. I'm not sure how much was resistance, and how much was air requirement, but my lungs certainly felt well used after playing any of the Thunderbirds for a while. And I do love it's big, hoarse-throated sound - almost like a shakuhachi at times!

On a completely different note, I'm coming from a fiddling background (though intermittent over the years and never well developed), and I have a fair bit of traditional music that starts on the G string. I'm thinking of getting a low G whistle to play it - looking at the Chieftain V4, but would appreciate other ideas in the same budgetary range. Ideally a decent volume "chiffy" whistle that plays well in the upper register, even the third octave, to get as many as possible of those 1st position E string notes on the fiddle (up to 3rd octave B on a G whistle).