Clogging in Susato Oriole Bb

[inthevale]

I think the Oriole probably plays best as a C. It's still nice as a laid-back Bb, but getting raucous higher up as a D and (especially) an Eb.

This stimulated me to purchase an additional D-body in order to confirm that “raucous” higher notes with my ears.

After that, I noticed the D-Oriole looks quite similar to my Dixon ABS whistle. Dixon has the same bore size and outer diameter as those of Oriole but is free from raucous higher notes.

I wonder that if Susato designers had chosen a slightly different head design, D-Oriole could have been more user-friendly. Why did they aim at C-whistle players?

Glad to know the somewhat shrill quality of the Oriole D is not by imagination or just the particular whistle I happened to get.

I had read a few disparaging things about the Oriole Bb at various sites. But my Oriole Bb sounds better balanced to my ear than the D.

[puipui]

Glad to know the somewhat shrill quality of the Oriole D is not by imagination or just the particular whistle I happened to get.

I am glad if my whim made you happy.
By the way, the “O-ring tweak of Susato” did work fine on my Oriole D.

viewtopic.php?t=50113#p655549

I have used some poster putty for that and did not get any shrillness up to the third octave D.

I had read a few disparaging things about the Oriole Bb at various sites. But my Oriole Bb sounds better balanced to my ear than the D.

Because of lack of precision in a process of gluing its small parts together, there are some variations among Oriole heads.
So, I will not mind what others are writing about the Oriole.

My Oriole Bb is genial and its notes sound quite natural.
It is trustworthy without sudden raucousness.
It is free of clogging.
I like my Oriole Bb very much.

[puipui]

I wonder that if Susato designers had chosen a slightly different head design, D-Oriole could have been more user-friendly. Why did they aim at C-whistle players?

I doubt they did. They simply needed one head and bore size to cover four pitches from Eb to Bb, which is quite a tall order.

I suspect they aimed at potential players of these instruments.
All instruments in this set are in the key of C.

http://www.susato.com/konakart/Oriole-V ... 12_-1_7.do

The Instruction Book they prepared for this set is as thick as 74 pages.
It seems that they really concentrated their efforts on this set.
Thus, the Oriole head had to be tuned up to the key of C, I guess.
Oriole whistles might be merely the side-products.

Another thing interested me is the relation between Oriole and Dublin whistles.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=88928#p1078330

Orioles were put into the Dublin line as temporal alternatives of the forthcoming tunable new Dublin whistles.
If this aspect was the main purpose of Susato, the Oriole head should be tuned up to the key of D as Bb Oriole was not necessary.
There was a Bb Dublin whistle already.

[Peter Duggan]

I suspect they aimed at potential players of these instruments.
All instruments in this set are in the key of C.

It's equally possible they chose C for that set because their one-size-fits-all Oriole whistle head and tube diameter were playing best in C?

Orioles were put into the Dublin line as temporal alternatives of the forthcoming tunable new Dublin whistles.

Haven't heard of forthcoming tunable Dublins. But I do have older (presumably Dublin) non-tunable Susatos in D and C and would say the D of that design is a much better whistle than the Oriole D whereas I probably prefer the Oriole C to my older C. I don't have any Kildares.

[puipui]

I suspect they aimed at potential players of these instruments.
All instruments in this set are in the key of C.

It's equally possible they chose C for that set because their one-size-fits-all Oriole whistle head and tube
diameter were playing best in C?

A whistle designer will tune up his whistle prototype to play best in the key of D, if no special request
was given beforehand. Because he knows whistles in the key of D sell more than those of other keys.
Dublin s-series and Kildare s-series were shown up as expected.

For the people living outside of the "whistle world", key of C is much more friendly than other keys.
Two sharp marks at the top of music sheets of whistle tunes are really a high barrier for them.
So I think Susato have chosen the key of C for this set on purpose.

[puipui]

Post subject: Re: Susato C and B quality question--Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 4:32 pm

Can't comment on the two-piece Kildares because I haven't got any, but would
rate the four Orioles in descending order of size with the Bb the best of the bunch.

Post subject: Re: Clogging in Susato Oriole Bb--Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2017 10:57 am

I think the Oriole probably plays best as a C. It's still nice as a laid-back Bb, but
getting raucous higher up as a D and (especially) an Eb.

Slight alteration in your evaluation of four Orioles made me suspect that the head may be tuned up for
the key of Bb or lower.

As pipes of the same size are easy to get in US, I got it and made small extensions to test if the head can
produce lower bell notes or not.

To my surprise, I could produce a G note if I blow carefully.
Total length of the whistle was 44cm and a few cm longer than my G whistle but I believe still playable.
(I have not yet tried to make a finger tube.)

A bell note of A is stable and easy to reach without any special attention.
So it seems possible to get a nice A-whistle using this head.

[puipui]

Orioles were put into the Dublin line as temporal alternatives of the forthcoming tunable new Dublin whistles.

Haven't heard of forthcoming tunable Dublins. But I do have older (presumably Dublin) non-tunable Susatos in D and C and would say the D of that design is a much better whistle than the Oriole D whereas I probably prefer the Oriole C to my older C. I don't have any Kildares.

New tunable Dublins are already shown up in the web site of Susato.
External appearance of them looks same as the old one. It seems that there is a strong demand for that.

Their pitch-pocket mechanism was reported here.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=102494#p1173982

[puipui]

I think the Oriole probably plays best as a C. It's still nice as a laid-back Bb, but getting raucous higher up as a D and (especially) an Eb.

Eventually I purchased two more Oriole heads.
I was curious if they are uniform as people believe or having some variability.

Three of them have similar external appearance and their window size, windway height, block position and labium shape look identical.
However, each of them produces quite different sound on the same Bb-body.
If you just hear the sound without looking at the whistle, you may think they are whistles from three different makers.

Head #1 has deep and rich sound. (this is the one I got some days ago)
Head #2 has sound lacking some lower frequency components and has higher back pressure than that of #1 head.
Head #3 has quite breathy sound and has the highest back pressure among the three.

Thus, it seems difficult to generalize someone’s observation on his/her particular Oriole to other Orioles.

[puipui]

I was curious if they are uniform as people believe or having some variability.

The head of Oriole is constructed of small plastic pieces glued together.
It seems to be built in a similar way as that when you build your plastic model aircraft.
If you recall your experience of building your model aircraft, you can imagine how large the variability in the completed aircraft.

Building a head of Oriole would be the same. Two parts, a half pipe with “susato USA” impression and another half pipe with “oriole” impression, are glued together to form a head body part. Two parts forming a block are inserted into the head body. A top collar is glued over them to form a neat-looking mouthpiece. A bottom collar is glued over them to strengthen a whistle-body holding part.

Number of pieces here is much smaller than that of model aircraft but six is enough to doubt the variability when the pieces are joined together.

Some heads may be built neatly and resulting in good sound but others may be built awkwardly with glue bulging and resulting in poor sound and/or clogging.

[puipui]

Three of them have similar external appearance -----. However, each of them produces quite different sound on the same Bb-body.
------
Head #3 has quite breathy sound and has the highest back pressure among the three.

I inspected the windway of #3 head and found glue overflowed from juncture of plastic parts.
They were hanging down from the windway ceiling like icicles.

I have removed them carefully with a fine blade and made that area flat using a small strip of sandpaper.
After that, breathy sound disappeared from the #3 head. It now sounds as good as the #1 head.