Looking for New Whistle

[Eleanor1248]

Hi everyone! I'm looking for some advice on getting a new whistle.

I've been playing for about three years. My first whistle was a Clarke Celtic, and I loved it to bits. I also tried a Walton and a Clarke Original and didn't like them nearly as much, especially not in the second octave. After a while, my Celtic started getting a little banged up (I wasn't half as careful with it as I now realise I should have been... >.<) and I decided that I wanted to upgrade to a really good, solid whistle. After some research and advice from my teacher, I got a Killarney, which I do like especially now that I've gotten used to it, but which doesn't quite have the tone that I'd like it to. It's a little too...muffled, almost? Hard to explain. It's almost like if it were a person, it'd have a stuffy nose. I realise that maybe I'm just being picky, but all the same, I'd like to find a whistle that I'm happier with.

Since getting the Killarney, I have gotten a Dixon Trad, a Feadog Pro, and a Generation (not tweaked - probably a mistake) and have found all three to be basically unplayable on the second octave. I've also gotten a new Celtic, but found it to be decent at best. I'm guessing the first one I had was one of those rare ones that's much better than the usual quality. I really liked it a lot and I think it spoiled me. It was easy to play (much easier than the Killarney), it had a really beautiful, sharp, birdlike quality of sound that I loved, and it was all around the best whistle I've ever tried. Unfortunately, it seems that most Clarke Celtics aren't as good and that the whistle I had was an exception.

I am looking to get a new whistle again and I'm getting a little tired of being disappointed by every whistle I get. I don't know...maybe I keep getting duds? I've heard good things about all the types of whistles I've tried, but most really haven't been very good in my experience. I do really like having a clear, sharp second octave, which is where most of the whistles I've tried have been lacking. Anyone have any advice? I realise that this type of question must have been asked a lot in the past, but since I've had problems with many of the often-recommended whistles, I thought I'd post this.

Oh, and just for reference, my budget for a whistle is under $100, though cheaper is better, obviously. Something around the range of the Killarney would be fine, but I want to make sure that I'll be spending money on a whistle I'd be really happy with.

Also, any thoughts on the Parks Ghost whistle? It looks super neat and I've had my eye on it for a while, but I'd hate to buy it and be disappointed again.

Sorry about the overly long post and thanks for any advice!

[Steve Bliven]

My thought, based on your comments, is that you would have to try a whistle (probably bunches of whistles) to find the one that suits your particular preferences. You can get lots of feed-back from folks on their favorite whistles but it may well turn out that their favorite isn't yours. You may also find that there are significant enough differences between hand-made whistles by any particular maker that the one you borrowed and loved might not be exactly like the one you finally get when your order is filled. For consistency by a maker (and because they meet your price constraints), you might consider one of Jerry Freeman's products. Have a chat with him about your needs/desires and he may be able to help you find what you are looking for.

You will find folks here who are staunch advocates for Killarneys and Dixon Trads—neither of which worked for you. The hard part is finding a place where you can try a bunch of whistles....

Them's my thoughts. Oh, and welome to the group.

Best wishes.

Steve

[nicx66]

I would also recommend Jerry Freeman. He could likely tweak your Clarke Celtic to sound as good as your first. I think maybe the reason that the other whistles you tried (Generation, Feadog) were not to your taste is that your first whistle is conical bore, while most others you tried are cylindric, and the playing properties are quite different. Jerry Freeman could likely get a better tone out of these as well. He is not only very talented, but an interesting guy. His approach to modifying whistles is a good one: stabilizing the playing characteristics while trying to preserve the tone of the whistle. There really are not a lot of (good and affordable) choices for conical, or tapered bore whistles. I think a freeman clarke celtic is your best bet. Good luck!

[awildman]

If you have 3 different brands of whistles all doing the same thing in the second octave, the odds are that the problem is not the whistles. Killarney hard to play? How so? They are fine whistles. Dixon Trad is also a fine whistle, and I've never had problems with the second octave.

You'll never make a chiffy whistle sound pure, of course, but many of the problems you describe can be helped with proper breath control and embouchure. You need to be in control of the whistle, not the other way 'round.

In my experience, there is no such thing as a perfect whistle. Everything is a compromise. Want easy to play? Say goodbye to good tone. Want small holes? Goodbye half holing. Want strong top end? Hello weak bottom end. It's up to the player to make an imperfect instrument (whistle) sound great.

[Eleanor1248]

Thanks for the replies. I think I might try to get a whistle from Jerry Freeman, then.

Regarding the problems I have with the Dixon, could it be that I got a dud? The lower octave sounds great - I can see why people might like it. But the higher octave is very airy, much breathier than I would have thought a whistle like that should be. Perhaps that's just normal for the Dixons and I'm being picky? But the quality of sound really isn't what I had expected from it.

The Killarney needs more careful breath control, which is what I mean by it being harder to play, but I don't have a problem playing it now that I'm used to it. I think it's a great whistle. It's just not quite what I'm looking for. Maybe I do like the sound of conical whistles better, though. I never thought of that being a factor, but now that I think about it, I remember liking a friend's Copeland when I tried it, so perhaps that's it.

[pancelticpiper]

I am disappointed by every whistle I get.

The possibilities that come to mind are

1) You've just had bad luck, "duds" as you say.

2) You have expectations that differ from the actual nature of whistles. May I ask what your musical background is?

What follows are things I've said many times on these boards, and the old-timers are saying "here he goes again" but to address both of these points:

The two things are interrelated. It's long been common for newbies to have experienced players pick out instruments for them. Why? Because the newbie doesn't know what to look for, doesn't know how the instrument is supposed to sound and function.

So these "duds", have they been evaluated by an experienced player or two? Are they really poor instruments, or do they just not meet a set of expectations which perhaps are alien to whistles?

For sure mass-produced cheap whistles often exhibit poor-to-nonexistent quality control.

I've often told my tale of a crack at an unopened box straight from the factory of 24 Generation D whistles. One whistle was superb and I would gladly have paid $200 for it. Another was nearly as good. A few were unplayable. Most were mediocre.

As I've often said, when I started (back in the 1970s) there were only Generation D's and everyone played them. So there was no possibility of people going on a quest searching through numerous makes of whistle. Your quest consisted of trying every Generation D you could get your hands on, to acquire the best one you could find. The best ones were very very good, unsurpassed in my opinion by any whistle by any maker at any price.

The musician didn't imagine some tonal ideal and then set about searching for a whistle that matched it; rather good Generations told YOU what the tonal ideal of whistledom was. Other makers cropped up especially in Ireland making whistles more or less in that same Generation mould (Feadog etc).

Then, what, around 1980 or so a load USA makers began appearing, usually people from non-ITM backgrounds who made whistles aimed at people who themselves were coming from non-ITM backgrounds, who were doing their darnedest to make whistles that sounded like recorders, or Native American flutes, or Boehm flutes, or what have you. There are still makers like that, still a market for whistles that don't sound or play like classic whistles.

It may be that you're in that category, and aren't going to be satisfied with whistles that play like classic whistles.

Seems to me that Killarney and Sindt are on a different tack, making whistles that, more or less, sound and perform like good old Generations. It's why I like those makes best among the newer makers.

You say the one whistle you did like was a Copeland. Copelands vary a huge amount, from superb to unplayable.

You'll pay around $1,000 for a Copeland

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=103822

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Copeland-Irish- ... 2364821735

and may get a whistle not as good as a $10 Generation. Or you could win the lottery and get a fantastic whistle.

[pancelticpiper]

In my experience, there is no such thing as a perfect whistle. Everything is a compromise.

1) Want easy to play? Say goodbye to good tone.

2) Want small holes? Goodbye half holing.

3) Want strong top end? Hello weak bottom end.

About #3 I think I agree, depending on what's meant by "strong". What I look for is a sweet high end, not rough or shouty. And usually the sweeter the high end the weaker the low end.

Different makers vary in how they decided to balance the high and low ends, and vary in how successful they are in minimizing the differential. The best Low D I've tried in that regard was a Lofgren, which had sweet responsive easy high notes and a booming bellnote.

About #2 it depends on your method of half-holing. I spend most of my time on Low Whistles and I half-hole the notes played by the ring fingers by partially covering the hole from above. On these two notes hole-size makes a big difference, the bigger the hole the easier it is to get accurate chromatic notes. With the notes played by the middle fingers I roll the finger to expose the side of the hole nearest the bell; for these notes it doesn't matter what the hole size is, seems to me.

About #1, it depends on what you mean by "good tone". For me the best whistles like superb old Generations and Feadogs are the easiest to play and also have that classic whistle tone that I love.

However if you mean, by "good tone", high volume, High D whistles made to be loud don't play like I want a whistle to play.

Or if you mean, by "good tone", a whistle sounding like a recorder or some other instrument, that doesn't interest me personally.

[whistle1000]

You definitely need to buy the whistle that Richard linked....it will make you play like Mary Bergin!...why? Because it was made by Michael Copeland! It's silver! And it's $1,500...everyone knows that the more expensive the whistle, the better you'll play! Especially if it is a Copeland! Please excuse my sarcasm...it takes years of practice to be able to control a whistle...my own two cents would be to practice your control with the Killarney...you say you like it but can't "control" it...it is you and not the whistle....all whistles need to be played the way they need to be played and it is up to the player to get the best out of the whistle...I'm willing to bet that any experienced whistleplayer would astound you with their abilities on the whistles you claim to be "faulty"...you have a teacher, he/she recommended the Killarney, as do countless others, yet you think it's the whistle at fault...listen to some videos of the maker of the Killarney whistles playing them....I'm willing to bet that he could make everyone of your "faulty" whistles sound equally as good! People throw the "tone" word around all the time...I'm betting most wouldn't know what that even means...it is a very "grey" area...especially when talking about whistles...after 3 years, it is you and not the whistle..after 30, you can make any whistle sound good....my car whistle, at the moment, is a aluminum Guinness novelty whistle that my wife bought somewhere....you'll hear people knock the crap out of them, but I can play the crap out of it and I really enjoy playing it and I am constantly surprised how "well" it plays...in this case, it is me and not the whistle....my point is, practice, practice, practice and more practice....years from now, you may find your original post a bit silly and naive...all the best in your quest for "the' whistle.

[Mr.Gumby]

It often seems to me a lot of people pass through here who love the idea of playing the whistle (and/or Irish music) but have to some degree a problem with the reality of it. "Toto, I've a feeling we're not in Kansas anymore. "

[ytliek]

Welcome to the whistle forum. Your avatar shows a Sindt or Killarney whistle so you must know something about whistles. I agree that you need to practice a lot and locate the particular quirks within each whistle. Playing a particular whistle for a while may change the qualities that you seek. The Freeman whistles may be a good choice, also consider the Timothy Potter whistle. If you want loud and pure sounding whistle break the bank and go for Burke session whistle.

So who do you listen to playing the whistle for inspiration? Style may be a factor to consider as well.

Anyway, welcome, and enjoy your whistling.

[Eleanor1248]

Thanks for the feedback, everyone!

In terms of my musical background, I really don't have much of one. Tin whistle is the first instrument I've seriously studied. I have been listening to lots of Irish music for most of my life though: groups like Lunasa, Clannad, Flook, the Chieftains, the Bothy Band, etc.

Also, to clear this up, since some people seem to have misread my posts, please don't think that I don't like my Killarney or can't play it. I can and do play it quite happily, all the time. It's got some individual qualities that aren't my favourite, but I by no means want to say that I think it's a bad whistle. My frustration is with the other whistles I've gotten, none of which have the kind of clean, pure sound that I had expected. But again, I think my first whistle Clarke ruined me a little, since it had very clear sound on both octaves and was really a joy to play. Perhaps I need to get used to playing more breathy whistles. *Shrugs*

[Chifmunk]

I'm no whistle expert by a longshot, but if you like a clear birdlike rather than breathy, I'd recommend the Jerry Freeman "Blackbird". I have the 3-set and it's very easy to get clear sweet or expressive notes on them in first and 2nd octaves. I'm a 6month beginner player with some lung capacity issues and I find the Blackbirds to be way easier to play than my other 'breathier' whistles. I love the dozen or so various whistles I have, but I feel like I can most depend on my Blackbirds when i don't want to 'squeak out'- I feel like they make me sound better than I actually am. Just my humble opine based only on my very limited experience.
Oh, and ...Welcome!

[Spielorjh]

Also worth considering is the whistle's purpose - are you playing for yourself? With a group? For a particular sound? These all inform what a "better" whistle is. I love my Impempe high D cannon in a session but I can't practice it at home lest I blow out my ears.

[awildman]

" Perhaps that's just normal for the Dixons and I'm being picky?"

It's normal for most whistles because physics. Higher pressure and air volume(amount) of the second octave creates more turbulence at the blade. Extra turbulence results in a more complex/airy sound. The airiness is actually present in the first octave, it is just less pronounced. In the case of the Dixon, the larger tubing size is a lot of the reason it has its particular voice.

Whistles which are too bright/focused (like you are asking about) are generally too piercing for listeners and most players. (Depends on the whistle, the player, and the listener, of course) The Killarney is quiet enough and "stuffy" enough so that there is a good balance being struck.

And yes, I think you're being picky. But that's OK. You're the one who has to play it. Just keep in mind the ears of people you play with.

[Eleanor1248]

I'm no whistle expert by a longshot, but if you like a clear birdlike rather than breathy, I'd recommend the Jerry Freeman "Blackbird". I have the 3-set and it's very easy to get clear sweet or expressive notes on them in first and 2nd octaves. I'm a 6month beginner player with some lung capacity issues and I find the Blackbirds to be way easier to play than my other 'breathier' whistles. I love the dozen or so various whistles I have, but I feel like I can most depend on my Blackbirds when i don't want to 'squeak out'- I feel like they make me sound better than I actually am. Just my humble opine based only on my very limited experience.
Oh, and ...Welcome!

Thanks for the suggestion about the Blackbird. I've been curious about that one, so it's nice to see it being recommended.

Also worth considering is the whistle's purpose - are you playing for yourself? With a group? For a particular sound? These all inform what a "better" whistle is. I love my Impempe high D cannon in a session but I can't practice it at home lest I blow out my ears.

Whistles which are too bright/focused (like you are asking about) are generally too piercing for listeners and most players. (Depends on the whistle, the player, and the listener, of course) Just keep in mind the ears of people you play with.

I'm looking for a whistle for personal use at home, so...not too worried about shocking everyone with how shrill my whistle might end up being. I plan to use my Killarney for sessions once my schedule works out in such a way that I can start going to our local ones, since I've played that for people before and they've considered it to be kinder on the ears.