Recommendation please: non-plastic low d whistle

[ytliek]

I am not shopping based on price

If you hang around this forum long enough, you could join the 'feeding chain' buying the whistles others have tried and not clicked with. Or you could buy new high end whistles and sell the ones you don't like into the feeding chain.

I would like to caution on the secondary market... the used instruments. I have no issue with any of the suggested whistle makers mentioned when buying direct from the maker... and get what you want.

Unless you are able to try a whistle out in person be very careful new or used. The used whistle market is loaded with whistles with custom characteristics requested by the original buyer. Many of these custom whistles end up in the "feeding chain" in whichever internet market, eBay, Amazon, Craig's List, auction houses, etc., which carry these characteristics and may not be what you desire. Trying before buying is very difficult over the internet unless parties are willing a trial period with return policy and that is difficult with used instruments.

I would take the suggestion about the E-Z grip or Piper's Grip very seriously early and try a low whistle out and see if it suits your desires. There's plenty of time to explore all of the whistle possibilities both high and low. WHOAD will take care of itself and that lucky man shopping desire of yours. Enjoy your whistling!

[Mikethebook]

The Dixon tapered bore Low D gets my vote of confidence too. I share DrPhill's comments. I wish I'd learned on it but still have it and use it for working out and transcribing tunes. As for the Chieftain Thunderbird, I would have categorised that as breathy but, as I say, it's all relative. Get yourself a Dixon until you know what you really want in a low whistle and learn piper's grip.

BTW although the Dixon doesn't use a great deal of breath, it is very easy blowing. But because of the shape of the fipple it is easy to tweak the characteristics of the whistle to have it use even less air but require more pressure. Somewhere on the forum are details of that tweak. In practical terms it means the whistle can provide you with a variety of characteristics that will help you understand what you like best in your ideal low whistle. Time spent with the Dixon will possibly mean less time and money spent looking for that ideal.

[DrPhill]

The used whistle market is loaded with whistles with custom characteristics requested by the original buyer

Good point - I have never fallen foul of that sort of thing so it did not occur to me to warn of it. I guess some such might be extra holes (may or may not be a good thing) different tunings (just/ET).... what else?

I may be naive, but I assume a higher level of integrity on this forum - at least from well established posters. eBay etc, well caveat emptor** covers it.

**omnia dicta fortiora si dicta Latina

[ytliek]

The used whistle market is loaded with whistles with custom characteristics requested by the original buyer

Good point - I have never fallen foul of that sort of thing so it did not occur to me to warn of it. I guess some such might be extra holes (may or may not be a good thing) different tunings (just/ET).... what else?

I may be naive, but I assume a higher level of integrity on this forum - at least from well established posters. eBay etc, well caveat emptor** covers it.

**omnia dicta fortiora si dicta Latina

I think what I was trying to convey when buying a used whistle is the whistle may have traits determined by the original buyer and those traits may not be desireable for a new owner. Traits possibly not fully known or disclosed with multiple transfers of ownership. Characteristics from threads mention easy, medium, or hard blower; breathy, airy, low/high resistence, backpressure, free blowing, etc., all qualities that ought to be considered. The forum threads often mention players carving the holes, trimming/shortening the tube ends or adjusting the blade to alter the qualities of the whistle to suit that particular player. Selling on such instrument is a different whistle from what the whistle maker originally made specifications. Comments in threads also frequently mention to make one's own whistle; take the challenge, get some info, and enjoy the workshop journey. I'm not handy with tools so workshop endeavors are out. I've bought new and used whistles here on the forum and elsewhere, yet, my preference would be to buy new from the whistle maker after discussing what the particular playing characteristics I desire in a whistle. Its new whistle purchase rather than a used whistle purchase that would suit me.

Perhaps an asterick* alongside the used whistle description denoting that further modifications have been made to the instrument from the original whistle maker's specifications? Similar to our US sporting record books denoting accomplishment made under the influence... steroids, hemp, alcohol, etc., and just kidding here.

I too would agree the forums have contained high level integrity with instrument exchange. The new vs. used instrument market has fascinated me though with comments about buy a whistle, try it out for awhile, and if not to one's liking sell the instrument on... with the expectation of selling instrument on for what was invested in the purchase. No depreciation. O. K. I get that... nothing lost, however, for the same price or nearly same price I would rather just buy new from the whistle maker to begin with and hope the instrument satisfies my playing considerations. Reducing say, $10.00, $25.00, or even $50.00 off any high end used whistle just wouldn't interest me... I'd just buy new from the maker and pay full price, which also continues to support the instrument makers and the economy.

I too would say the Dixon tapered bore Low D is a good start. Yeah, it is plastic of some sort yet it plays.

[pancelticpiper]

Reviol, Lofgren, Lambe, Copeland, Carbony, Reyburn, Burke, Goldie, Bracker

Overton, Garvie, MK, Chieftain... I can't remember what all.

I myself love the "used whistle market" because it allows you to try an endless number of whistles for free. Buy and whistle, try it for a week or two years, then sell it for what you bought it for. (Sometimes you sell it for a hair less than you paid, sometimes for a hair more. It evens out in the end.)

About the danger of a used whistle you buy having unique characteristics, in my experience ALL whistles have unique characteristics! You can buy ten new Low D's from the same maker and no two will play exactly alike. (Well except for Burkes maybe )

After I had to give up flute a few years ago I went on a big Low D Whistle buying spree. I've tried most of the makes out there, and sometimes as many as a half-dozen of the same make.

For me the main characteristics are:

1 ) tuning. As Rockstro said that's the primary thing in music, being able to play the right notes.
2 ) air-efficiency, that is, being able to play the longest possible musical phrases.
3 ) ergonomics, which boils down to hole-spacing, weight, and tube thickness.
4 ) evenness of voicing.
5 ) ease of production of the 2nd octave/ sweetness of the high notes.
6 ) power of the low notes especially Bottom D.
7 ) evenness of volume over the gamut.
8 ) overall volume.
9 ) tone quality.

I have never found a Low D which excels at all of these.

Many Low D's excel at a number of these, but there's always that one drawback that keeps them from being "the perfect Low D".

So far I've found one Low D that's not poor at anything, the Goldie I have. Not the best at everything, but not bad at anything.

[greenspiderweb]

I am not shopping based on price

Lucky man

For what my opinion is worth (and I am no expert) it seems to me that there are two things that you might need to learn. In the short term you should probably learn the 'Super-EZ-grip' (sometimes known as 'pipers grip'). For that any reasonable whistle would do. In the long term you need to learn what you want from a low D whistle. That will take time and money. I have seen people bandy all sorts of words around - flutey, breathy, mellow, responsive, easy-blower, ad nauseam.... None of it meant diddly-squat to me until I started playing. Once I could play a bit, then I went looking for whistles I liked (actually that is a bit of a lie - I did waste some money before I knew what I was doing). Tried a few and settled on the ones I have. I dont think that I have even been tempted by a whistle purchase for two, three, four years. (MODS: am I allowed to admit this in public? Or have I just 'fessed up to WHOAD police?)

So, for short term I would recommend getting anything reasonably easy to play and learning on it - for this I would recommend the Dixon tapered bore even though it is plastic - I wish I had learned on one. You don't have to play it for ever, but I bet you wont sell it in a hurry. If when you sell it you wont lose much. I am not a fan of plastic whistles, but it is so dam easy to play that I still have mine. I will pass it on to step-grandson if and when he wants one. When you feel competent then its time to explore - it would be a shame to lose money rejecting a whistle that you did not appreciate, just to buy it again later when your skill had advanced (DAMHIKT). If you hang around this forum long enough, you could join the 'feeding chain' buying the whistles others have tried and not clicked with. Or you could buy new high end whistles and sell the ones you don't like into the feeding chain.

You could listen to lots of recordings of different whistles, but my undeveloped ear found this very misleading.

Ha, Dr Phill! (I don't have to AYHYKT)! I've even bought back the same whistles I've sold on occasion just to revisit them again-and I have enjoyed most every time I've done it!

You can get an idea of various different characteristics of a whistle from any recording (though it helps a lot to know what you are listening for), but no, don't rely on it-most recordings have been altered in some way (reverb, compression, amplification), and the ears don't usually hear the same aspects of tone when you are playing it yourself, compared to when you are listening to it when someone else is playing live, and/or from a recording. It also matters where you play it due to the effects of the acoustics of the room and how it affects the tone you hear too. I judge my whistles's tone against others where I play most-at home, in a certain spot I am used to sitting-and where it sounds good to me. I have tried playing in a car, and outdoors, where often the whistle sounds lackluster and inferior to my regular home spot.

So yeah, it's complicated to say what you will like until you've tried them personally. There isn't a good amount of info on the Chieftain Thunderbird; but do a search and see the other threads on it too. I also don't know where you would buy one now-or if Phil Hardy is still offering them?

Though most Chieftains are breathy by family trait, except maybe the Kerry Optima (plastic various colored head) being a little more focused and never clogging from moisture for me-and that is a pretty big thing), or the handmade Kerry Pro (all aluminum) with a unique smoother tone, are both very nice whistles. Though any whistle's tone is individual, and open to interpretation of one's own ear's perception of tonal characteristics, these two are favorites of mine, along with the Chieftain NR (yes, a breathy but solid emphatic tone), and the personal favorite of mine, the V4 non-tunable for it's quieter, yet breathy and expressive tone, though less emphatic and more personal in nature. The Chieftain NR Low D is also a very appealing whistle-with more volume and emphasis in the low range.

I also really like the little bit clearer toned Reviols-another favorite of mine, yet still with a very expressive tone, and a bit richer second octave than most low D's. The Reviols seem to take a bit more air to make them sound well, but they are not hard to master with a little practice, and pay off with a unique tone all their own.

Congrats to you chubbychecker-you are now on the road to finding your whistle(s) with your own preference-just go for what appeals to you for whatever the reasons as a starting point, and take it from there. It is a bit of a journey for anyone, but only you can really determine the outcome by doing it yourself. Have a blast and enjoy the trip-it's mostly up to you to set your course, as it should be after all.

And, for what it's worth, I think the Susato Low D is a great inexpensive choice in a low whistle-a nice voice and easy to play, without spending much either, just as the Dixon tapered bore Low D has been mentioned also. I have never tried the Dixon, but it sounds appealing, no doubt, for the tapered bore and ease of play. Though the Susato I think would be a fine choice as well, depending on your location (where available and without import fees) and options available. Get a Low D and explore-and have fun.